DL Hall 2023

[Ohfan67]

5 hours ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

We've seen the way Hyde uses his bullpen.  It's a minor miracle he used Akin for 2.2 innings yesterday.  If Hyde continues to be our manager, I don't see Hall ever being that 3 inning guy unless he is often used as an opener.  

Akin averaged 1.8 innings per appearance last year. Both is averaging 1.37 innings per appearance this year. I think Hyde would LOVE to have a reliable reliever or two that could throw 2 or 2+ innings when needed. But unfortunately Akin and Voth and other options have not performed well this year. There have been many times when it was clear that Hyde would like to stick with a reliever longer, but had to yank the pitcher to keep the Orioles in close games. I think Hyde and the organization are trying to maximize what they can get out of the bullpen. Last year Akin was able to be that guy early in the season (but obviously struggle later in the year). So far this season none of the "long man" type options have pitched very well. Hopefully this is the start of a good run of pitching by Akin. That would be really helpful. 

 

That said, I don't think they are going to regularly pitch a bullpen guy for three innings. They have to use multiple bullpen pitchers basically every game. You can't do that if you have a couple of bullpen guys that need like three days between appearances to recover from a three inning outing. 

[Ohfan67]

By the way, some of the Hall quotes in that article are really weird IMO. He's just now figuring out that he needs to learn how to pitch and not just blow away hitters? That seems pretty damning in regards to Hall's baseball intelligence and pretty damning in terms of Orioles pitcher development. There was similar language in a recent article about Grayson at AAA (I think it was quotes by Irwin maybe?). I would hope that it wouldn't take getting your brains beat in by major league hitters to finally understand this concept. 

[Mr-splash]

45 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think it’s more complex than that.  Depends how good your secondary pitches are.  I think 95 with a really tough secondary can work even without great command. Josh Hader is a good example (though his command is better than Hall’s).   

I still believe in Hall’s stuff.  The command always has been an issue and we’ll just have to see if he figures it out.  

 

97-98 out of the pen with poor command will not work against MLB hitters. Bautista has poor command and is very effective, but here is the difference. He's throwing really damn hard. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Mr-splash

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

97-98 out of the pen with poor command will not work against MLB hitters. Bautista has poor command and is very effective, but here is the difference. He's throwing really damn hard. 

I don’t agree that 97-98 isn’t hard enough.  And again, it depends what else you throw.  But I’m not going to debate it, because right now, Hall’s command isn’t even as good as Bautista’s.  

[Frobby]

Guys who average 5+ BB/9 with an ERA under 3.50:

Amir Garrett, 7.29 BB/9, 3.00 ERA, 95.0 mph

Lucas Sims, 6.55 BB/9, 3.27 ERA, 94.7 mph

Aroldis Chapman, 6.04 BB/9, 2.82 ERA, 99.6 mph

Wandy Peralta, 5.67 BB/9, 2.67 ERA, 95.7 mph 

Shelby Miller, 5.46 BB/9, 2.57 ERA, 93.3 mph

Jose LeClerc, 5.14 BB/9, 2.57 ERA, 94.9 mph 

So, you don’t have to throw 100 mph, or even close, to be a good reliever without great command.  Only 15 relievers in MLB average 98+ on the fastball, so it’s not correct to say 100 mph is needed these days if you don’t have great command.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Frobby

[emmett16]

Hall is frustrating to watch.  He can’t control his fastball and continues to miss badly arm side.  3 BBS and a HBP in 3ip of work.  The HBP the C was set up low and away and he plunked the lefty batter up and in.  He missed his target by like 3’.   No balls were hit very hard off of him.  He will strike someone out and make it look easy and then come back and walk the next guy on 4 straight balls.   30/61 strikes is not gonna work.  He is his own worst enemy.  If he can get a little control he will be a weapon out of the pen.  I have to imagine starting is beyond a long shot at this point.  

[Sports Guy]

According to statcast, he never touched 95 yesterday. Got close but didn’t get there.

In glad this deloading stuff is working out so well.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Sports Guy

[interloper]

32 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

According to statcast, he never touched 95 yesterday. Got close but didn’t get there.

In glad this deloading stuff is working out so well.

I don't know if the Orioles even really know if the deload will work. I think they figure it's the best possible chance of maybe getting his velocity back enough for him to help out of the bullpen later this season. Other than this, he probably needs a full offseason of workouts. 

At first I rolled my eyes at it, but now I think it's at least worth a shot. If it doesn't work, there's no real harm done, just build him up again and continue with the season and see where it goes. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't know if the Orioles even really know if the deload will work. I think they figure it's the best possible chance of maybe getting his velocity back enough for him to help out of the bullpen later this season. Other than this, he probably needs a full offseason of workouts. 

At first I rolled my eyes at it, but now I think it's at least worth a shot. If it doesn't work, there's no real harm done, just build him up again and continue with the season and see where it goes. 

It’s worth a shot if you are getting results. They have been doing it for about a month and the results aren’t any different.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s worth a shot if you are getting results. They have been doing it for about a month and the results aren’t any different.

Yeah. I'm not fully convinced of the lack of workouts being the cause of the velocity change, either. I'm not sure anyone really knows, but it's a reasonable guess. I'd give him another couple weeks maybe. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s worth a shot if you are getting results. They have been doing it for about a month and the results aren’t any different.

How much strength do you think you gain in a month of lifting?  Not that much. 

[Flash- bd]

34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

How much strength do you think you gain in a month of lifting?  Not that much. 

Depends how many PEDs you use. 

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

How much strength do you think you gain in a month of lifting?  Not that much. 

Probably not but how long is this going to last?  Are you going to have him pitch 3 innings a week for the next few months?

[orioles22]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:08 PM, Ohfan67 said:

Akin averaged 1.8 innings per appearance last year. Both is averaging 1.37 innings per appearance this year. I think Hyde would LOVE to have a reliable reliever or two that could throw 2 or 2+ innings when needed. But unfortunately Akin and Voth and other options have not performed well this year. There have been many times when it was clear that Hyde would like to stick with a reliever longer, but had to yank the pitcher to keep the Orioles in close games. I think Hyde and the organization are trying to maximize what they can get out of the bullpen. Last year Akin was able to be that guy early in the season (but obviously struggle later in the year). So far this season none of the "long man" type options have pitched very well. Hopefully this is the start of a good run of pitching by Akin. That would be really helpful. 

 

That said, I don't think they are going to regularly pitch a bullpen guy for three innings. They have to use multiple bullpen pitchers basically every game. You can't do that if you have a couple of bullpen guys that need like three days between appearances to recover from a three inning outing. 

I think having someone who can pitch 3 innings to close a game on occasion would keep Hyde from having to use anyone else on those days. I think it would be a huge help to the pen in the long run. If you did that twice a week, you could use the other 6 guys to finish four games a week.

[Frobby]

16 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Probably not but how long is this going to last?  Are you going to have him pitch 3 innings a week for the next few months?

Hell if I know what their plan is.