AL team to watch: White Sox

[Es4M11]

If Cease were available, I would have to think a package of Westburg, Mayo, Hall, Denoyer, Prieto would at the very least pique the White Sox' interest.

[Bemorewins]

34 minutes ago, Es4M11 said:

If Cease were available, I would have to think a package of Westburg, Mayo, Hall, Denoyer, Prieto would at the very least pique the White Sox' interest.

Maybe that's our starting point in the trade negotiations, but I think we will have to do better. I think if the Dodgers want to they can easily beat that. There are going to be other suitors for his services.

[Es4M11]

10 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Maybe that's our starting point in the trade negotiations, but I think we will have to do better. I think if the Dodgers want to they can easily beat that. There are going to be other suitors for his services.

The Orioles could significantly upgrade the package and still not touch the top tier pieces.
Ortiz, Mayo, Hall, Norby, Denoyer should be enough to get it done, but at that point it might be paying too much.

[Aristotelian]

58 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Cowser plus a WHOLE lot more! I think in order to figure out a point of fair compensation we would need to look at a similar package to what the Padres gave the Nats for Soto. That's going to be the price point. The rationale is that you a getting a difference making for cost controlled seasons 2 1/2 seasons and 3 postseason runs.

I am somewhat more optimistic than you. I don't think Soto is the best comp as Cease is a P and has put up only about half the WAR that Soto accumulated for the Nats. Cease is very good but he is not in Scherzer/Verlander territory yet. Worth noting, even in his CY-2 season last year he led the league in walks. So far it looks like he may be showing some regression this year. If he gets his ERA back in the 2's by the July I could see a better case for a Soto-like return. 

[dystopia]

Again, people on here are massively overrating Cease. He's had one season of dominance and has been mediocre this year. I'd be willing to trade Westburg, Stowers, and Hall for him but if the White Sox start asking for much more then they need to be told to go pound sand. Cease walks WAY too many batters and I want to see him lower his ERA to 3.30 or lower before I become convinced last year was not just a flash in the pan.

[Yardball85]

11 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

What would you be willing to give up for Cease?

Spitballing here, but would Cowser, Hall, Mayo, and Ortiz be enough? Too much?

[Frobby]

10 hours ago, sevastras said:

Henderson , Holliday and Rutschman are off the table. 

Then we’re probably not getting Cease.  

Last time the White Sox traded an ace (Chris Sale) they got the no. 2 and 32 prospects in MLB (Moancada and Kopech), plus two other prospects.

 

[maybenxtyr]

Regardless of who they target, I don't think they're going to be able to wait until the deadline. Obviously if one of Kremer or Bradish could get it going that would change the situation considerably.

[Es4M11]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Then we’re probably not getting Cease.  

Last time the White Sox traded an ace (Chris Sale) they got the no. 2 and 32 prospects in MLB (Moancada and Kopech), plus two other prospects.

 

Dylan Cease isn't Chris Sale...

[Frobby]

Just now, maybenxtyr said:

Regardless of who they target, I don't think they're going to be able to wait until the deadline. Obviously if one of Kremer or Bradish could get it going that would change the situation considerably.

Hopefully at least one of them will.  We know they have talent.  Bradish actually looked great yesterday until he tired in the 5th.   

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Es4M11 said:

Dylan Cease isn't Chris Sale...

Fair enough, and Cease is not pitching that well at the moment.   Of course, he’s got a really bad defense behind him, too. 

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Es4M11 said:

The Orioles could significantly upgrade the package and still not touch the top tier pieces.
Ortiz, Mayo, Hall, Norby, Denoyer should be enough to get it done, but at that point it might be paying too much.

Yes I know. But the problem is (or maybe not problem more of a reality) the CHI Sox know this too. In your list of prospects I don't see 1 top 50 guy. I highly doubt that Cease can be had for no top 50 prospects. What makes you believe that the sport values Cease any less (or should I say) that much less than Soto?

Also, when you are this prospect rich, I have a hard time in terms of understanding things like "paying too much". No matter what we gave up non-Grayson Rodriguez or Adley (which I am very confident that they are non-starters) for every other prospect, we have something similar/redundant. Even with the top end guys like Gunnar or Holiday, we have the other one who is very similar (5-tool, left handing hitting SS with elite plate discipline). Honestly, we have so much org talent, there are not even 2 trades for any player in the sport (who is available) that would break us. 

I hope we can get him without having to give up Gunnar. But if that is the cost to add a #1, I think that you have to seriously consider it because we are not winning anything with this pitching staff as currently constructed. We have hopes in Grayson (and rightfully so because the talent is tremendous, a solid Wells, and what? Hopes, dreams, and Means.

I want no part of Bradish, Kremer, or Gibson starting a postseason game. And DL Hall is a pipe dream. He can't even figure out how to consistently have good starts in AAA and will be 25 this season. He way more project than prospect IMO.

Cease is a piece that we don't have now, but will need in order to win in the Fall. And you get him for 3 postseasons. It doesn't have to be Cease, it can be someone like Luzardo from MIA (if available). But we are going to need someone to slide in at the top of the rotation in order to give us a legit shot to compete for a World Series. And given the way the 3rd Wild Card has opened things there are not going to be too many top guys available. Cease will be one.

[maybenxtyr]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hopefully at least one of them will.  We know they have talent.  Bradish actually looked great yesterday until he tired in the 5th.   

I'm pretty high on him. I like Kremer too, but he's always been a 2 steps forward 3 back kinda pitcher.

 

Fortunately they're winning games, but that's been exposing the same guys in the BP.

[Bemorewins]

15 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Again, people on here are massively overrating Cease. He's had one season of dominance and has been mediocre this year. I'd be willing to trade Westburg, Stowers, and Hall for him but if the White Sox start asking for much more then they need to be told to go pound sand. Cease walks WAY too many batters and I want to see him lower his ERA to 3.30 or lower before I become convinced last year was not just a flash in the pan.

I don't think I am overrating Cease. He is a 27 year old All star from last year, who had a 2.20 ERA. I'm sorry but nobody is that lucky. Name the pitchers who luck into sub 2.50 ERAs. He also has 3 post seasons left on a cost controlled contract. Yes, he had ONE bad start yesterday against the hottest hitting team in baseball which pushed his ERA to just north of 4, but that doesn't make him overrated.

I believe that the cost is going to be somewhere around the cost that the Padres paid to acquire Soto. If you don't think that we should pay, that is fine. But we are going to need a pitcher like him in order to win in October. Even if Grayson reaches his potential, we are going to need more than that. And other than Wells being solid and hoping that Means returns and goes right back into form, we simply don't have anything else.

What is your plan to acquire that pitcher?

We are the richest team in org talent in the game. We can replace any prospect/young asset in our org not named Adley and Grayson. Even Holiday and Gunnar have very similar profiles (both are 5 tool, left handed hitting SS with elite plate discipline). I don't want to see either go, but if we had to I would part with Gunnar first since he is more replaceable with a capable fill-in with Urias until Mayo is ready. Holliday, I feel, keeps our window open that much longer.

[nevadaO]

I think some here are massively underrating Gunnar's future potential because of his slow month. Cease would be a nice pickup, no doubt, but you don't rob Peter to pay Paul, especially when Peter hasn't made much commission this month.