Has Gunnar's struggles slowed the promotion of other O's prospects?

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

"On an annual basis"?  I'm trying to determine what point you're making here.  Are you saying that...because his numbers this year are worse than last year he is hitting worse "on an annual basis"??

 The league no doubt adjusted to Gunnar over the winter.   The "annual basis" was put there because  I wanted everyone to look how Gunnar did in 2022 and 2023.   If posters just look at 2023 they could say Gunnar is doing better in May than he did in April.   I was focusing the discussion on looking at two seasons rather than one.

[Mr-splash]

I've seen people say that right now Holliday is literally a better ballplayer than Frazier. I admit, that did make me chuckle a bit. Adam Frazier (if he was 19) would be on pace for the 2nd greatest 19-year-old position player season of all time right now, behind only Harper. You can't make this stuff up.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Mr-splash

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So what left handed infield prospect is Frazier protecting us from?

Elias straight out said a large consideration for signing Frazier was that he bats left handed.

It's not about "protecting" us from any prospect.  It's about a role.  They wanted a LHH IF because Gunnar is the only one they had, and rookie struggles were expected.

It also fits because there are still roles for Westburg and Ortiz (as we've seen) on the big league roster and that fits in better w Frazier.

Westburg and Ortiz will get playing time this year; they just weren't going to be handed a starting spot in the spring.  And as we've seen, for good reason.

[Just Regular]

Ryan O'Hearn has had a few big hits and a career below replacement.    

Westburg, Ortiz and Cowser don't have to beat Frazier - in Mullins absence the players whose jobs they would take are more like McKenna 650 OPS, Hicks 575 OPS, Vavra 550 OPS.

And there might be a return on investing those reps in those guys later this year, whereas the incumbents have almost no upside.

[Frobby]

36 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

Elias is rightfully concerned with super 2

I seriously doubt it.  

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Just Regular said:

Ryan O'Hearn has had a few big hits and a career below replacement.    

Westburg, Ortiz and Cowser don't have to beat Frazier - in Mullins absence the players whose jobs they would take are more like McKenna 650 OPS, Hicks 575 OPS, Vavra 550 OPS.

And there might be a return on investing those reps in those guys later this year, whereas the incumbents have almost no upside.

They want Ortiz and Westburg, and Cowser for that matter, playing every day in AAA, rather than sporadically in a bench role in the Bigs.

I belive that equation will change as the season goes along.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Pickles

[Hank Scorpio]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Why can't Gunnar?

Well, first of all, he can. Are we to accept crap offense because someone has more MLB service time?

To me Gunnar is a different story because he's 21 years old and would be a college Junior this year. Probably going through some mental growing pains facing his first real "failure" as a professional. 

Westburg has seen a lot more advanced baseball and consistently put up numbers at Norfolk.

 

[Going Underground]

My friend was telling me that Melanie Newman was doing the MASN  game with Jim Palmer.  Gunnar got a hit and Melanie said that you knew Gunnar is going to hit.Palmer said to her that you hope he is going to hit. 

Most top prospects became average to below average, especially pitchers. Only 1 in 10 top 20 Baseball America pitching prospects have an above average career.

[Hank Scorpio]

What isn't slowing the promotion of other O's prospects is the performance of other O's prospects. 

[Pickles]

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

Well, first of all, he can. Are we to accept crap offense because someone has more MLB service time?

To me Gunnar is a different story because he's 21 years old and would be a college Junior this year. Probably going through some mental growing pains facing his first real "failure" as a professional. 

Westburg has seen a lot more advanced baseball and consistently put up numbers at Norfolk.

 

If he can, why isn't he?  If Frazier's offense is crap, then what is Gunnar's?

You raise a point about Westburg being older and maybe that will help his transition more smoothly.  Perhaps, though it's fair to point out that Gunnar outperformed Jordan last year at the same levels.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Pickles said:

It's not about "protecting" us from any prospect.  It's about a role.  They wanted a LHH IF because Gunnar is the only one they had, and rookie struggles were expected.

It also fits because there are still roles for Westburg and Ortiz (as we've seen) on the big league roster and that fits in better w Frazier.

Westburg and Ortiz will get playing time this year; they just weren't going to be handed a starting spot in the spring.  And as we've seen, for good reason.

Frazier is a LHH that plays 2B and CO.

Elias wanted a LHH that plays 2B and has some positional flexibility.

Don't think it has anything to do with Gunnar.

Maybe if Ortiz or Westburg had been LHH the plan would have been to use one of them?

 

[OriolesMagic83]

4 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

My friend was telling me that Melanie Newman was doing the MASN  game with Jim Palmer.  Gunnar got a hit and Melanie said that you knew Gunnar is going to hit.Palmer said to her that you hope he is going to hit. 

Most top prospects became average to below average, especially pitchers. Only 1 in 10 top 20 Baseball America pitching prospects have an above average career.

I watched a video recently about why Gunnar was struggling so bad in the majors.  He's been abyssmal at hitting breaking pitches, especially sliders.  It was a video looking at all ROY candidates.  I remember Volpe has been terrible at breaking pitches too.  He was hitting .000 against the curveball at time of video.

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Frazier is a LHH that plays 2B and CO.

Elias wanted a LHH that plays 2B and has some

positional flexibility.

Don't think it has anything to do with Gunnar.

Maybe if Ortiz or Westburg had been LHH the plan would have been to use one of them?

 

Maybe.  I think they would have gone and got a RH guy though in that case.

They already had Vavra for that role.  The issue isn't so much LHH, as it is veteran with a high floor imo.

[Mr-splash]

10 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

My friend was telling me that Melanie Newman was doing the MASN  game with Jim Palmer.  Gunnar got a hit and Melanie said that you knew Gunnar is going to hit.Palmer said to her that you hope he is going to hit. 

Most top prospects became average to below average, especially pitchers. Only 1 in 10 top 20 Baseball America pitching prospects have an above average career.

This. Grayson failed in his first stint in the big leagues. It sucks, but it's expected. In fact, it's likely he forever fails. Major League Baseball is hard and when a guy can perform at above league average level then he is really, really good at baseball. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Mr-splash

[Spy Fox]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I seriously doubt it.  

Why do you think Westburg is still in AAA? One reason I've been entertaining the Super 2 possibility is that I find all the other explanations pretty flimsy as well at this point. 

I don't believe it's about performance, Westburg's trade value, or anything related to prospect rankings. The expressed reason might be related to positional flexibility, but I don't fully buy that either.