Has Gunnar's struggles slowed the promotion of other O's prospects?

[Baltimorecuse]

I have no idea how the management works here.  I think the Chris Davis fiasco is still a constant shadow.

However, we're tied for the second most wins in all of baseball.  Which is astounding given our stat line.  The Giants stats are almost identical to ours and they're a game under 500.  That's where our stats say we should be.  

So something else is going on.  I don't think management is going to mess with the chemistry,  

[Moose Milligan]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 

I also find it funny that people want to blow Elias because of how great he is at building a farm system and then they scoff at the idea that the players they laud can come up here and be helpful…that somehow all of these highly ranked, talented players are actually completely poop and not actually very good.

 

Where’s anyone saying this?

[Sports Guy]

5 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Where’s anyone saying this?

People in this thread are questioning why we think the young guys should be up here. Saying they will struggle, etc…

That may be true, as that happens to all players. It’s also true that the talent is immense and that you can’t pat Elias on the back for doing so well building that talent and then turn around and act as if they don’t deserve to be here or aren’t good enough.  It’s just not logical.

 

[Flash- bd]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

People in this thread are questioning why we think the young guys should be up here. Saying they will struggle, etc…

That may be true, as that happens to all players. It’s also true that the talent is immense and that you can’t pat Elias on the back for doing so well building that talent and then turn around and act as if they don’t deserve to be here or aren’t good enough.  It’s just not logical.

 

That argument definitely isn't logical but then most straw men aren't. 

[Roll Tide]

18 hours ago, wildcard said:

So you are saying that if Gunnar was hitting for an 840 OPS right now it would not cause Elias to think he is establishing himself  in the majors and  encourage Elias to promote other rookies?

Every player is different. Success or struggles from one player to another is not related. 

[Orioles0615]

15 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

That argument definitely isn't logical but then most straw men aren't. 

At the beginning of the year everyone and their mother was talking about how we could have 3 guys compete for rookie of the year and they were creaming themselves about the thought of an extra draft pick

[Sports Guy]

31 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

That argument definitely isn't logical but then most straw men aren't. 

Good thing that’s not what it is. You can’t laud the talent, see that talent is tearing it up, is age appropriate, etc..and then say they aren’t good enough to beat out mediocre vet players.

Its not a string of events that makes any sense.

Someone made the comments, this is why you can’t play a bunch of rookies.  That’s bs. You play talent. You play guys that are ready. 
 

You want an insurance policy and bring in some cheap vet to back them up?  Ok, that’s fine (although the os didn’t need that because they already had cheap vets) but play the guys that you spend every offseason patting yourself on the back about.  They are either good or they aren’t. 

[Matt Bennett]

Gunnar has struggled to the tune of a 111 OPS+ in the majors at age 21. This kid is special 

 

[sevastras]

38 minutes ago, Orioles0615 said:

At the beginning of the year everyone and their mother was talking about how we could have 3 guys compete for rookie of the year and they were creaming themselves about the thought of an extra draft pick

It is barely June, Gunnar has time to still compete for ROY. 
I don’t know him, but from the sounds of it from Ben McDonald, Gunnar is very hard on himself. If he just let himself relax just a bit, he will tear it up. That will come with some success and age. I have no doubt he will be really good really soon. 

[Matt Bennett]

18 hours ago, Mr-splash said:

This board is overloaded with fans who think a bunch of early 20s minors prospect are going to come to Camden Yards and outperform a bunch of mid-career, established ballplayers. And it's like bruh, stop it. Seriously guys stop doing that. It really shows that many fans have no idea what they are talking about and are consumed with the shiny luster of Norfolk and Bowie toys. Major League Baseball is very hard.

Gunnar has the highest OPS of any of our infield. Mounty, Urias, Frazier, Mateo. Now, the latter 3 play solid defense and I think they are solid ball-players. I’m not calling for their heads. I have pointed out for awhile now that there are at-bats to be had for Westburg, especially with a Urias injury and now a Mullins injury. He’s a top prospect hitting the cover off the ball over an extended period of time in AAA. Every fan base in the country calls for that type of player to be promoted. Maybe he stinks. Maybe he’s better than our whole infield. I don’t know. You don’t know. Stop acting like you do. Henderson did not struggle initially. Urias did not struggle initially. Frazier did not struggle initially. Mountcastle did not struggle initially. Hays did not struggle initially. Mateo’s first 200 at bats are very similar to his last 600. It’s not a foregone conclusion Westburg will go through an adjustment period. Even if he did, why is a rookie adjustment or a sophomore slump more detrimental to a team than a veteran’s struggles? I remember Santander’s abysmal April. I remember Mateo’s horrid May. What is the difference? I personally am of the opinion that 4 games a week at the MLB level is more beneficial to Westburg and could be more beneficial to the Orioles than 6 games a week at Norfolk. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

People in this thread are questioning why we think the young guys should be up here. Saying they will struggle, etc…

That may be true, as that happens to all players. It’s also true that the talent is immense and that you can’t pat Elias on the back for doing so well building that talent and then turn around and act as if they don’t deserve to be here or aren’t good enough.  It’s just not logical.

 

I didn’t see anyone saying anyone was poop, though.  No one made that argument. 
 

I also don’t see anyone saying that these guys can’t beat out mediocre vet players. Maybe except for the weird newcomer @Mr-splashwho has a mancrush on Frazier, but he’s an outlier. I think it’s clear that most everyone here wants Ortiz and/or Westburg up now. 
 

But it’s also perfectly reasonable to wonder about what those player’s shortcomings are. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I didn’t see anyone saying anyone was poop, though.  No one made that argument. 
 

I also don’t see anyone saying that these guys can’t beat out mediocre vet players. Maybe except for the weird newcomer @Mr-splashwho has a mancrush on Frazier, but he’s an outlier. I think it’s clear that most everyone here wants Ortiz and/or Westburg up now. 
 

But it’s also perfectly reasonable to wonder about what those player’s shortcomings are. 

Isn't TopGummar pretty down on the rookies?

 

 

[Mooreisbetter27]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Isn't TopGummar pretty down on the rookies?

 

 

I feel like he’s been pretty down on about 75% of the team. Wasn’t he the one saying the entire bullpen is horrible ?

[sportsfan8703]

Gunnar is 21. A learning curve was expected, but it was also expected that talent would win out. No sense of wasting that in AAA. Gunnar was a move for September. He’s just going to get better and better. 
 

Some combo of Gunnar, Hicks, and O’Hearn is a nice little 5-7/8 in the lineup. 
 

Back to the OP, I think Gunnar is going to lead to a quick rise for Holliday. Not just from AAA to the MLB. Holliday is about to be in Bowie. That’s pretty close to Gunnar last year. Just a level behind. Idk if that means we see Holliday in September, but it leaves the door open. 

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, sevastras said:

It is barely June, Gunnar has time to still compete for ROY. 

I agree, but Gunnar will have to get on his bicycle.  Among AL position player rookies, he’s 10th in fWAR, 10th in wOBA.  Right now I’d say Josh Jung is the leader in the clubhouse, hitting .290/.336/.524 with 12 homers and 37 RBI, good for 1.5 fWAR. It’s a pretty deep rookie class.