Ortiz vs Westburg

[The Goob]

In theory calling up Cowser and Westburg while keeping Ortiz on the roster after Mullins returns would look something like this:

CF - Mullins

3B - Henderson

C - Rautschman

DH - Santander

LF - Hays

1B - Mountcastle / O'Hearn

RF - Cowser

2B - Westburg

SS - Ortiz

Bench - McCann, Frazier, O'Hearn, Urias

It will make for some very difficult decisions.  What do you do with Mateo? Do you go to five man bench? Are Frazier and O'Hearn your backup outfielders? Can you trade one of Mateo, Frazier, Urias?

[foxfield]

22 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m curious…was Frazier the only vet player they could have added that would have helped the clubhouse? (Which I don’t buy at all)

You're not curious....I'm not curious.  Why won't you just say what you think.  You know he wasn't brought here to help the club house.  Hell he's probably teaching those young boys to smoke. No, he's not here to help.

He's here for one go*dam* specific reason.  To f**k us!

Just like...Bill Haller was 

Let it go man....

And this is definitely NSFW

 

[emmett16]

18 hours ago, orioles22 said:

I think the Orioles have probably done Westburg a favor by not bouncing him back and forth as they have with Ortiz. I think it has hurt Ortiz's numbers at both levels.

Can guarantee you Ortiz isn’t complaining.  I think he’s played well give the circumstance.  

[Aristotelian]

12 minutes ago, The Goob said:

In theory calling up Cowser and Westburg while keeping Ortiz on the roster after Mullins returns would look something like this:

CF - Mullins

3B - Henderson

C - Rautschman

DH - Santander

LF - Hays

1B - Mountcastle / O'Hearn

RF - Cowser

2B - Westburg

SS - Ortiz

Bench - McCann, Frazier, O'Hearn, Urias

It will make for some very difficult decisions.  What do you do with Mateo? Do you go to five man bench? Are Frazier and O'Hearn your backup outfielders? Can you trade one of Mateo, Frazier, Urias?

I think Gunnar is the SS with Urias. Mateo is a defensive replacement/pinch runner/occasional starter vs LHP. Ortiz goes back to play every day at AAA but he is the first man up if anyone is injured. 

Cowser/Westburg for McKenna/Lester just makes perfect sense right now. 

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, The Goob said:

In theory calling up Cowser and Westburg while keeping Ortiz on the roster after Mullins returns would look something like this:

CF - Mullins

3B - Henderson

C - Rautschman

DH - Santander

LF - Hays

1B - Mountcastle / O'Hearn

RF - Cowser

2B - Westburg

SS - Ortiz

Bench - McCann, Frazier, O'Hearn, Urias

It will make for some very difficult decisions.  What do you do with Mateo? Do you go to five man bench? Are Frazier and O'Hearn your backup outfielders? Can you trade one of Mateo, Frazier, Urias?

For one I don't think there is any evidence to point to whatsoever that says Elias has any interest in this happening this year. He has had a bunch of opportunities to do this and has not shown any willingness to want to just throw all the young guys/rookies out there and "see what sticks".

Franky, I don't disagree with him on that. That bottom 3 could be very uncompetitive as those 3 take time to settle in/figure things out at this level. That would potentially mean that every 3 innings the opposing pitchers can breeze through without much resistance. That is a LOT to risk on a contending team. I'm not sure the risk of doing that would be worth the reward.

As far as your question goes, why would anyone want Mateo or Frazier? They could have had Frazier in the offseason if desired. And what value does Mateo really have? IMO Urias may have some value if packaged with other more valued assets/prospects. Of those 3 players (Mateo, Urias, Frazier) if they were on the market by another team, would you want any of them?

[deward]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I think Gunnar is the SS with Urias. Mateo is a defensive replacement/pinch runner/occasional starter vs LHP. Ortiz goes back to play every day at AAA but he is the first man up if anyone is injured. 

Cowser/Westburg for McKenna/Lester just makes perfect sense right now. 

So much sense that Elias is going to stubbornly refuse to do anything like that.

[The Goob]

20 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

For one I don't think there is any evidence to point to whatsoever that says Elias has any interest in this happening this year. He has had a bunch of opportunities to do this and has not shown any willingness to want to just throw all the young guys/rookies out there and "see what sticks".

Franky, I don't disagree with him on that. That bottom 3 could be very uncompetitive as those 3 take time to settle in/figure things out at this level. That would potentially mean that every 3 innings the opposing pitchers can breeze through without much resistance. That is a LOT to risk on a contending team. I'm not sure the risk of doing that would be worth the reward.

As far as your question goes, why would anyone want Mateo or Frazier? They could have had Frazier in the offseason if desired. And what value does Mateo really have? IMO Urias may have some value if packaged with other more valued assets/prospects. Of those 3 players (Mateo, Urias, Frazier) if they were on the market by another team, would you want any of them?

I agree with you.  I think Elias has no interest in a lineup that includes Henderson, Ortiz, Westburg and Cowser or we would have already seen it.  The post was more to show that is all of those guys are up and playing it pushes Urias and Frazier to the bench most days and likely Mateo off the roster.  Elias for whatever reason has no interest in any of those things happening.  The fact that Cowser is not up and you have O'Hearn, Frazier and McKenna getting time in RF speaks volumes on what is going on.  Adding Mullins back hopefully soon makes it even more likely we don't see anyone significant from AAA anytime soon.  I don't understand it or agree with it but the Orioles appear to be very stubborn about certain decisions (Odor for all of last year) and they can point to the standing with authority to say they know what they are doing.  Cowser and WEstburg for Lester and McKeena makes perfect sense as long as you are going to play them.  I think the Orioles have made the decision they are going to ride Frazier and others as long as they continue to play well.

[RVAOsFan]

31 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I think Gunnar is the SS with Urias. Mateo is a defensive replacement/pinch runner/occasional starter vs LHP. Ortiz goes back to play every day at AAA but he is the first man up if anyone is injured. 

Cowser/Westburg for McKenna/Lester just makes perfect sense right now. 

With the recent news that Mullins and Mountcastle are about to start rehab assignments in AAA it sounds like they will be replacing Lester and McKenna or someone else very soon.

[The Goob]

5 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

With the recent news that Mullins and Mountcastle are about to start rehab assignments in AAA it sounds like they will be replacing Lester and McKenna or someone else very soon.

Agreed.  Which means to then add Westburg and Cowser you would need to remove two of Urias, Mateo, Ortiz and Hicks.

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, The Goob said:

I agree with you.  I think Elias has no interest in a lineup that includes Henderson, Ortiz, Westburg and Cowser or we would have already seen it.  The post was more to show that is all of those guys are up and playing it pushes Urias and Frazier to the bench most days and likely Mateo off the roster.  Elias for whatever reason has no interest in any of those things happening.  The fact that Cowser is not up and you have O'Hearn, Frazier and McKenna getting time in RF speaks volumes on what is going on.  Adding Mullins back hopefully soon makes it even more likely we don't see anyone significant from AAA anytime soon.  I don't understand it or agree with it but the Orioles appear to be very stubborn about certain decisions (Odor for all of last year) and they can point to the standing with authority to say they know what they are doing.  Cowser and WEstburg for Lester and McKeena makes perfect sense as long as you are going to play them.  I think the Orioles have made the decision they are going to ride Frazier and others as long as they continue to play well.

I think that the reason is the risk associated with carry multiple guys who are adjusting to MLB and the time that it takes for that to occur; and thus the negative impact that it could impose on winning.

It makes sense to a degree, but if that is the true 'guiding principle', then it would seem reasonable that Cowser would be the next up as it appears that Gunnar has made the adjustments now to be a consistent contributor to the team winning games.

But Cowser has stayed down so I'm not even sure how true that theory really holds.

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, The Goob said:

Agreed.  Which means to then add Westburg and Cowser you would need to remove two of Urias, Mateo, Ortiz and Hicks.

Why in the world would Hicks be considered for removal from the roster, let alone regular playing time?

He has been very good since he has been here. I don't see the wisdom in advocating for removing good/productive/contributing players just for the sake of it.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Why in the world would Hicks be considered for removal from the roster, let alone regular playing time?

He has been very good since he has been here. I don't see the wisdom in advocating for removing good/productive/contributing players just for the sake of it.

Who said he was advocating for that?

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Who said he was advocating for that?

The idea was posed as though that would be a viable option. That is what I was responding to.

[interloper]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

The idea was posed as though that would be a viable option. That is what I was responding to.

He's not wrong, it's just the facts. You can only choose from a handful of guys if you're adding Westburg and Cowser after Mullins and Mountcastle come back. I would think they keep Hicks, too, but he's an option in theory. 

More likely is that the Orioles will probably never add both Cowser and Westburg at the same time, unless there's a trade or injury, or until the roster expands in September. 

[Sydnor]

1 hour ago, Os4days said:

Besides the stats, Ortiz doesn’t pass the eye test as a hitter to me. Sure he has shown some pop in the minors but I haven’t seen any bat speed in his limited ABs in the majors. Sure it’s a small sample size and he is just getting experience. 

For a guy who is better as a slap hitter at 5’9 190, he also is not a threat on the bases. I really only see him as a nothing more than a utility player at best. 

There are thing that measure exit velocity, barrel percentage, and hard hit rate. None of it is particularly meaningful because Ortiz hasn’t been given a meaningful opportunity to play, but they don’t scream slap hitter.

His barrel rate is 8.3%. His average exit velocity is 88.8 mph. His max exit velocity is 109.8 (56th percentile). His hard hit rate is 48.8%.

For someone who isn’t a threat on the bases, he isn’t slow. His sprint speed is 28.3 ft/s (78th percentile). So, while he might not steal a lot of bases, he appears capable of taking an extra base.