Mariners looking to trade pitching for hitting?

[7Mo]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m not sure that I exactly understand what you are asking.

But I think after the extreme process of tanking that it took to get to where we are and after accumulating a massive war chess of assets, that the goal should be to put ourselves in a position to compete/win multiple championships. Not simply being satisfied with doing enough to qualify for a postseason birth.

I agree. But you still try to make the best decisions daily, whether you were last in the WS 5 years ago or 40 years ago. 

I'm saying the 40 year drought shouldn't cause them to build with urgency at the cost of longer term success.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, foxfield said:

I think you are saying the right thing, but still getting something wrong. 
 

Of course the Orioles have nearly an embarrassment of riches. But that in no way means they cannot hurt the future significantly. 
 

Let’s say Stroman is available but they want Cowser and Kjerstad or they ask for Gunnar and Ortiz. 
 

The Orioles could do either one and have a still rich talent pool. But I am not making either of those deals. 
 

That doesn’t mean players are untouchable. But if the market is sky high there may…may be better deals to make in the off season. 
 

I am not disagreeing with the idea or the opportunity to make strong/smart moves. 
 

I am disagreeing with the idea that the Orioles can’t possibly make a damaging move. We see teams do it all the time. 
 

Cease was traded by the Cubs. Tatis was traded for pitching. It happens. It could here too.

 

No sane GM is trading 6+ years of Cowser or Kjerstad for a half of a season of Stroman.

So when I talk about the possibility of “giving away the store” or “mortgaging the future”, I speak in terms of what I believe is realistic/rational.

Elias appears to be a very conservative/risk adverse front office executive, I don’t see him realistically entertaining the type of one-sided/desperate trades that some posters fear. I just don’t.

Furthermore, when posters suggest these type of trades it applies that other GMs could be competitive w such a package or best it. There are only a couple of teams with comparable farm systems to us - The Dodgers and Guardians, maybe the Diamondbacks?

From everything that we have seen from Friedman’s Dodgers, they are not run that way. They value their prospects a ton. And the Guardians certainly have never been the type of team (going all the way back to the mid 90’s) to not value their own prospects. 

I guess the D-backs could operate that way. But again I doubt that.

IMO the whole “selling the future” narrative is a fallacy that is rooted in irrational fear.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I have children who are gen Z that whole love the name on the front of the jersey more than the back doesn’t fly with the younger generations. They don’t engage sports or really anything that way. They don’t possess that type of institutional loyalty.

To be honest with you, I’m in my 40’s and don’t have any memories of the last championship from 83’. 

If want you say is true, I have less than zero interest in the Orioles being in a constant state of rebuilding. For what? So the owner can make gobs more money to add to his billionaire status? How does that benefit me as a fan and a resident of this community?

If the Orioles are even meaningfully considering becoming some or of second rate franchise that is nothing more than a farm team for the more serious franchises in the sport, it won’t just be me who is gone. We will truly see Camden Yards reflect the Trop. 

It’s horrifying to me to even hear an idea of preparing to sell off Gunnar Henderson. The kid looks like he could be special, and a multiple time all-star etc. Maybe our next Cal Ripken?

I have no interest in watching/supporting the Orioles be in a constant state of rebuilding. I have spent at probably close to a couple thousand dollars going to games and buying merch for myself and family this season. If the Orioles alienate fans like me, I can simple reallocate those funds for another trip to Europe or the Caribbean. We don’t live in the times of the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. Fans/people have way too many other entertainment options.

Perhaps you will need to find a New Jersey to root for sir. I think this is definitely the plan under John Angelos. Once Peter passes the team may be sold to Jeff Bezos or somebody who has the money to burn. 
 

Many of the radio guys believe we will extend Adley but not Gunnar to the early long term extension due to the Boras thing. It could be different if Gunnar falls in love with Baltimore and agrees to stay on a friendly deal. But, I hope your not expecting 4-5 guys making 100 million of the annual payroll because your going to be disappointed u

 

im not saying i like it but it appears where we are.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, luismatos4prez said:

He has a career 4.63 ERA, 4.69 FIP, 4.66 xFIP. To me, he's that guy until he proves otherwise over a large sample size. I like Dean a lot, but he's a 4th starter.  Not someone I want starting in the wild card series.

Means, Bradish, and Wells are guys I'd give the ball to, but I don't know how much we can count on them down the stretch. A proven vet with #2 stuff that has started 30+ games before and has postseason experience would be huge. Stroman, Montgomery, Giolito, and ERod all fit that mold.

Career is a silly way to look at developing players. 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Perhaps you will need to find a New Jersey to root for sir. I think this is definitely the plan under John Angelos. Once Peter passes the team may be sold to Jeff Bezos or somebody who has the money to burn. 
 

Many of the radio guys believe we will extend Adley but not Gunnar to the early long term extension due to the Boras thing. It could be different if Gunnar falls in love with Baltimore and agrees to stay on a friendly deal. But, I hope your not expecting 4-5 guys making 100 million of the annual payroll because your going to be disappointed u

 

im not saying i like it but it appears where we are.

Perhaps you can root for a New Jersey team. 

I was born in Baltimore, grew up here, and have chosen to remain in the community when I have had many other options as an adult.

[FlipTheBird]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Perhaps you can root for a New Jersey team. 

I was born in Baltimore, grew up here, and have chosen to remain in the community when I have had many other options as an adult.

I don’t believe RT meant to say “New Jersey” so much as “new jersey.” As in a different set of laundry to root for, as the approach the John Angelos Orioles are taking probably isn’t going to be one you’re happy with.

[Roll Tide]

37 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Perhaps you can root for a New Jersey team. 

I was born in Baltimore, grew up here, and have chosen to remain in the community when I have had many other options as an adult.

I’m not the won crying about not being able to live with the direction. Claiming that my kids will never buy into the team’s approach. 

[Roll Tide]

50 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

I don’t believe RT meant to say “New Jersey” so much as “new jersey.” As in a different set of laundry to root for, as the approach the John Angelos Orioles are taking probably isn’t going to be one you’re happy with.

Correct ….don’t care which team he wants to root for if he can’t buy into the team approach 

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

No sane GM is trading 6+ years of Cowser or Kjerstad for a half of a season of Stroman.

So when I talk about the possibility of “giving away the store” or “mortgaging the future”, I speak in terms of what I believe is realistic/rational.

Elias appears to be a very conservative/risk adverse front office executive, I don’t see him realistically entertaining the type of one-sided/desperate trades that some posters fear. I just don’t.

Furthermore, when posters suggest these type of trades it applies that other GMs could be competitive w such a package or best it. There are only a couple of teams with comparable farm systems to us - The Dodgers and Guardians, maybe the Diamondbacks?

From everything that we have seen from Friedman’s Dodgers, they are not run that way. They value their prospects a ton. And the Guardians certainly have never been the type of team (going all the way back to the mid 90’s) to not value their own prospects. 

I guess the D-backs could operate that way. But again I doubt that.

IMO the whole “selling the future” narrative is a fallacy that is rooted in irrational fear.

I am not afraid of selling the future.  I am confident that Elias will make a good/smart move or make a marginal one.

[Bemorewins]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m not the won crying about not being able to live with the direction. Claiming that my kids will never buy into the team’s approach. 

Crying? … LOL

Are you a comedian by any chance?

[Roll Tide]

30 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Crying? … LOL

Are you a comedian by any chance?

No you ? You’d tried to stoke an argument over your comprehension issues by turning a new jersey into New Jersey. I stated the team’s direction based on what John Angelo said and their actions. You said you and your kids can’t live with that type of team direction and ownership. Wanna keep going ?

Edited July 9, 2023 by Roll Tide

[86this]

21 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the Cardinals aren't sure what direction they are going to go in.  They aren't used to this type of season.

Fore sure.  They haven't had consecutive bad seasons since the early to mid-90s.

[Bemorewins]

23 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

No you ? You’d tried to stoke an argument over your comprehension issues by turning a new jersey into New Jersey. I stated the team’s direction based on what John Angelo said and their actions. You said you and your kids can’t live with that type of team direction and ownership. Wanna keep going ?

Keep going about what? 

What response are you expecting me to have to that? 

Are you trying to intimidate me on a message board?

What’s your goal with the comments? If it’s to try to tell me not to express my opinion then I’m going to honestly have to tell you that’s not going to work with me.

If my post(s) bother you that much, it may be wise to ignore them or not respond. But you do whatever feels best for you.

[Roll Tide]

38 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Keep going about what? 

What response are you expecting me to have to that? 

Are you trying to intimidate me on a message board?

What’s your goal with the comments? If it’s to try to tell me not to express my opinion then I’m going to honestly have to tell you that’s not going to work with me.

If my post(s) bother you that much, it may be wise to ignore them or not respond. But you do whatever feels best for you.

You said this 

Quote

I have no interest in watching/supporting the Orioles be in a constant state of rebuilding. I have spent at probably close to a couple thousand dollars going to games and buying merch for myself and family this season. If the Orioles alienate fans like me, I can simple reallocate those funds for another trip to Europe or the Caribbean. We don’t live in the times of the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. Fans/people have way too many other entertainment options.

So you obviously weren’t serious 

[ShoelesJoe]

Would Mullins + Ortiz for Gilbert work?