Why isn't Ortiz in Baltimore instead of Mateo?

[wildcard]

19 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

But he's only good when getting regular playing time,  which his bat doesn't warrant him getting any longer.   Thus the defense suffers.  His bat is bad,  even against lefties since May, his defense is trending down with decrease playing time,  and he's not running on the bases the few times he's getting chances now.   Tell me again what he brings to that roster spot.....

With the facts you have presented I agree.  The only reason I can see to keep Mateo is attrition.  If Gunnar goes down then Ortiz take the starting SS job and Mateo is the backup.   Other than that I see no reason at this point.

[RZNJ]

17 minutes ago, baltfan said:

How can you possibly say Ortiz is better defensively than Urias unless we are talking about SS which is Urias's weakest position? Urias has a legit GG at third and has looked like a GG fielder at second.  

Ortiz looks “special” at all three spots if you ask me.  Just saying.   

[BRobinsonfan]

8 hours ago, baltfan said:

1. Clubhouse reasons.  Mateo is well-liked and has been an important part of the team. He has had slumps before and may be playing a bit hurt.  You can hurt morale when you push a guy like that out.

2.  They want Ortiz to play every day. He wouldn’t up with the Orioles and that could stunt development 

3. They want to showcase Ortiz for other teams. 

if he isn’t traded, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ortiz after the deadline if Mateo continues to struggle. 

Clubhouse reasons? Seriously?  

You know what really hurts morale?  Losing out on making the postseason because you kept the anemic hitting shortstop with the .259 OBP who can't hit right-handers to save his life instead of bringing up the hard-hitting, slick-fielding phenom from AAA because the other guy was "well-liked."  

[baltfan]

9 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

Clubhouse reasons? Seriously?  

You know what really hurts morale?  Losing out on making the postseason because you kept the anemic hitting shortstop with the .259 OBP who can't hit right-handers to save his life instead of bringing up the hard-hitting, slick-fielding phenom from AAA because the other guy was "well-liked."  

You really think Mateo, who hardly plays, is likely to cost the Orioles a playoff spot.  Moreover, you really think that the players will blame him?  You act like he is the every day starter.  He starts occasionally against lefties. 

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, baltfan said:

You really think Mateo, who hardly plays, is likely to cost the Orioles a playoff spot.  Moreover, you really think that the players will blame him?  You act like he is the every day starter.  He starts occasionally against lefties. 

He started 11 of 26 games since Westburg arrived.  I wouldn’t call that “hardly playing.”   Before that, he’d started 62 of 76 games.  

Either way, I don’t think team morale will be affected a ton by whether Ortiz replaces Mateo.  I do think Ortiz is better and will help the team more.
 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He started 11 of 26 games since Westburg arrived.  I wouldn’t call that “hardly playing.”   Before that, he’d started 62 of 76 games.  

Either way, I don’t think team morale will be affected a ton by whether Ortiz replaces Mateo.  I do think Ortiz is better and will help the team more.
 

I’m ok with waiting until the trade deadline in case any infield prospects are traded, but if Ortiz is still an Oriole after the August 1st trade deadline then it’s time to call him up. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I’m ok with waiting until the trade deadline in case any infield prospects are traded, but if Ortiz is still an Oriole after the August 1st trade deadline then it’s time to call him up. 

That’s exactly where I am. 

[24fps]

33 minutes ago, baltfan said:

You really think Mateo, who hardly plays, is likely to cost the Orioles a playoff spot.  Moreover, you really think that the players will blame him?  You act like he is the every day starter.  He starts occasionally against lefties. 

He takes up a roster spot and if he hardly plays then why keep him around?  You already have a lefty/righty situation with Mountcastle and O'Hearn that I don't see being broken up and with 13 pitchers bench spots are in short supply so the LHP specialist argument doesn't really work.

[baltfan]

3 minutes ago, 24fps said:

He takes up a roster spot and if he hardly plays then why keep him around?  You already have a lefty/righty situation with Mountcastle and O'Hearn that I don't see being broken up and with 13 pitchers bench spots are in short supply so the LHP specialist argument doesn't really work.

Do you think Ortiz will play more.  I prefer Ortiz to him, but the question was "Why is Mateo still here?"  I provided what I thought was a logical answer.

[banks703]

4 minutes ago, baltfan said:

You really think Mateo, who hardly plays, is likely to cost the Orioles a playoff spot.  Moreover, you really think that the players will blame him?  You act like he is the every day starter.  He starts occasionally against lefties. 

12 years back I was an employee at a credit union who was very-well liked at my company. The President of the company would often come to my desk to talk baseball with me (the biggest die-hard Mets fan that I've known in my life). My manager never spoke up to tell Andy that by him coming to my desk to talk baseball with me for an hour, that it was cutting into my productivity. This would occur two or three times a week every week and it would effectively cut my 40 hour work week down to 37ish hours. Sure, I was being paid for 40 but Andy and I were talking baseball for at least three of those hours.

In the four years that I worked there, our entire division showed noticeable performance dips from April through September. Yes, there were obviously other variables that contributed (employees come and go, market changes, employees with kids who were home for the summer had to manage childcare, etc.) but the performance dip during baseball season was clear. During management meetings my manager would get beaten up for the dip in numbers. She said nothing about the President of the company taking three or four hours of my time every week (her fault, I would have said something if I were her). It wasn't until years after having left that company and running into a co-worker from that team, that I learned that literally every single member of my team/division held strong resentment for the preferential treatment that I received during my time working there. We had team members who I was very close with during our time working together, leave because of how they felt about my not pulling my weight and it being tolerated.

No one ever said anything to me about this so I was completely oblivious to it and as a younger guy, I figured if the President of the company is talking to me, I'm not doing anything wrong. My overall work performance was still very good during these months but it was A LOT better outside of baseball season. Now knowing how folks felt and having grown in my career through my own management roles and now having my own company, when I look back on those years I can recognize times that that folks were frustrated. 

If the O's lose a game with a score, like, 10-9 and Jorge K's four times, while everyone else contributed (which has happened) you won't have to look hard for guys who would be frustrated, not because of a bad game but because of three months of abysmal work performance from Jorge. 

I'm sure that Jorge is well-liked but he's been a legitimate black hole in their lineup for three months at this point. I am the biggest supporter of Jorge but no one player is greater than the team/organization. They can't (what I mean is it's irresponsible when they do) play him against righties and his defense has slipped quite a bit from last year. I don't see how they can justify running him out there in any higher leverage game, which at this point in the season is all of them. 

I promise you that the players, even the players who love Jorge, are frustrated by him not producing. Maybe they aren't saying anything to him or speaking up about it because they like him. That's what my co-worker told me - "we all loved being around you but it pissed us off so much to see and hear you and Andy bullshitting for hours on end, causing our numbers to dip"

Something has to give with Jorge soon. I promise the other guys are frustrated, even though they might all love him. 

[24fps]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

Do you think Ortiz will play more.  I prefer Ortiz to him, but the question was "Why is Mateo still here?"  I provided what I thought was a logical answer.

Yes, I think Ortiz will play more and substantially better overall.  I also think that after August 1, Mateo's future will be decided almost immediately.  His usefulness will be gone and so will he.

[G54377]

Mateo could certainly be a sweetener to a deal, he is after all a "gold glove caliber" SS that has had a 800+ OPS August 2022 and a 1000+ OPS April 2023. Someone can roll the dice he strings together an extra month of that to keep his glove on the field for 2 years.

[banks703]

12 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Do you think Ortiz will play more.  I prefer Ortiz to him, but the question was "Why is Mateo still here?"  I provided what I thought was a logical answer.

If the deadline passes and both Jorge and Joey are still in the org and they haven't promoted Joey to take Jorge's roster spot then something is wonky. I can only think that Jorge remains on the roster instead of Joey because they are attempting to package Joey in a deal to address another need, which I am on record stating that I believe it'd be a mistake to give up Joey for anything other than in a package to acquire a legitimate TOR pitcher. 

Joey is now 25 years old. They're wasting his productive years. There's really nothing more for him to prove in Norfolk. It's negligent to continue to run Jorge out there while keeping Joey in Norfolk. If Joey isn't traded and they promote him, at that moment he becomes the majority starter at SS, Gunnar gets moved more permanently to third with Westburg getting most of his run at 2B. The infield can still be interchangeable between all five of Joey, Gunnar, JW, Ortiz and Frazier. This is the right move and should have been made weeks back. I do think that Gunnar's excellent showing at SS potentially allowed them to listen on offers for Joey (and perhaps even Jorge) leading up to the deadline. 

I do think that Joey's D and overall play pushes Gunnar back to third more with the PT more resembling how it was divided at the beginning of the year with Jorge. 

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, BRobinsonfan said:

Clubhouse reasons? Seriously?  

You know what really hurts morale?  Losing out on making the postseason because you kept the anemic hitting shortstop with the .259 OBP who can't hit right-handers to save his life instead of bringing up the hard-hitting, slick-fielding phenom from AAA because the other guy was "well-liked."  

If Ortiz is as good as you describe, it makes me wonder why many rankings have him rated in a similar range to Norby, who most posters don’t like much?

If Ortiz is that guy at SS he must be very underrated and probably a similarly talented player as Gunnar Henderson?

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, banks703 said:

If the deadline passes and both Jorge and Joey are still in the org and they haven't promoted Joey to take Jorge's roster spot then something is wonky. I can only think that Jorge remains on the roster instead of Joey because they are attempting to package Joey in a deal to address another need, which I am on record stating that I believe it'd be a mistake to give up Joey for anything other than in a package to acquire a legitimate TOR pitcher. 

Joey is now 25 years old. They're wasting his productive years. There's really nothing more for him to prove in Norfolk. It's negligent to continue to run Jorge out there while keeping Joey in Norfolk. If Joey isn't traded and they promote him, at that moment he becomes the majority starter at SS, Gunnar gets moved more permanently to third with Westburg getting most of his run at 2B. The infield can still be interchangeable between all five of Joey, Gunnar, JW, Ortiz and Frazier. This is the right move and should have been made weeks back. I do think that Gunnar's excellent showing at SS potentially allowed them to listen on offers for Joey (and perhaps even Jorge) leading up to the deadline. 

I do think that Joey's D and overall play pushes Gunnar back to third more with the PT more resembling how it was divided at the beginning of the year with Jorge. 

I cannot remember but I think it may have been you? My apologies if it was not.

But were you the poster who was advocating for a move of positions of Holliday to 2B or CF?

I ask because if the O’s choose the alignment you suggest, what happens next year (probably by no later than mid season) when Holliday is ready?

It appears that Bradfield Jr. was drafted to be the longterm CF, no? What do you envision that the orgs plans are for Holliday?