Wigginton Official/Moore DFA

[Boy Howdy]

Please don't use strikeouts as a metric for determing a players worth unless he's putting up numbers like that of a Corey Patterson.

Tell it to the 30 major league franchises that saw enough swinging and missing from Pickering to determine he was hurting more than helping.

I suppose they all have a vendetta against you, too. Life's so hard when the man keeps fighting you down.

[TommyD4207]

How much time did the Red Sox give Pickering in their minors?

They picked him up midseason and then released him. Are you actually applauding them?

Have the Red Sox been sucking that long?

In 2001, the Red Sox had gone 83 years without a World Series title. So yeah.

Hell, Kansas City didn't give him just 27 AB's, for the Royals:

I know, which is why I said "149" not "27." Thought that was fairly obvious.

2004: 122 AB's to the tune of an 838 OPS

Stop the presses. They also cut him the next year after 27 AB's. So your point is null and void.

In Boston he produced to the tune of an 859 OPS.

In 50 AB's.

My point is the Orioles never give these guys a legitimate chance but overpay for guys like Millar and Payton day in and day out (until recently). I still think Mora's paycheck over the last few years didn't warrant his pay, and could have been replicated at a fraction.

I must've missed it when Andy MacPhail did anything like that.

So whining about what the previous Orioles GM's have done, is just that. Just whining about the Orioles previous GM's. Do you get pleasure out of doing that?

[elsid]

I just think when you're in a dire situation like the Orioles, you can afford to give guys like Pickering, Moore, Cust, House, Knott, Montanezx, Salazar chance for the league minimum instead of giving guys like Fahey (411 ABs over 3 years), Payton (772 Abs over 2 years), and Millar (just for his 2008 that sucked).

Sure, you could. However, you already had money tied up. Why pay extra, when it wasn't going to help the team, necessarily? Minimum is not much, up to $420k this year, I think. Most teams just aren't willing to give guys a shot like that. That is one thing that expansion has caused, this "Quad A" player. They already had to make low A and high A.

Granted, the O's had the chance to give these guys a shot, but attendance would have dropped dramatically if these guys played all the time. Angelos would have gone postal, and there might not have even be a warehouse left.

[LookitsPuck]

They picked him up midseason and then released him. Are you actually applauding them?

When you're a well run team, sometimes you can do things like this.

In 2001, the Red Sox had gone 83 years without a World Series title. So yeah.

I should stop responding after this ridiculous claim. World Series title != successful franchise.

So whining about what the previous Orioles GM's have done, is just that. Just whining about the Orioles previous GM's. Do you get pleasure out of doing that?

You're like a little kid. Who brought up Pickering to begin with? My gripe is with the Orioles of the past. Hell, I praise MacPhail on a consistent basis. My problem has been with the administrations who overpay and sign guys like Millar, Payton and not give guys like the people I've said in the past.

I get pleasure out of bashing the Orioles administrations of old, because I hate that they raped this franchise.

[LookitsPuck]

Sure, you could. However, you already had money tied up. Why pay extra, when it wasn't going to help the team, necessarily? Minimum is not much, up to $420k this year, I think. Most teams just aren't willing to give guys a shot like that. That is one thing that expansion has caused, this "Quad A" player. They already had to make low A and high A.

Granted, the O's had the chance to give these guys a shot, but attendance would have dropped dramatically if these guys played all the time. Angelos would have gone postal, and there might not have even be a warehouse left.

And guys like the Millars and Paytons is going to help attendance? No. I don't buy it. Millar, Payton, Baez, Walker..etc. Those were terrible signings. One could also claim Gibbons contract (but that's 20/20). I think it was just dumb managing, true and true. Do you see MacPhail doing what the GM's of old have done? I don't. And with good reason.

[TommyD4207]

No response to everything else, you'll just take a little bit of what I say and cherrypick that. For some reason, I'm gonna play along. What can I say, I'm bored.

When you're a well run team, sometimes you can do things like this.

I should stop responding after this ridiculous claim. World Series title != successful franchise.

You're calling Dan Duquette a guy who runs a team well? Here's some advice, never say that in a bar in Boston.

If you're saying Dan Duquette did a good job running the Red Sox, then I don't know what to tell you.

You're like a little kid.

You called Boom Boom Dixon a jerk earlier, and you say this? Are you trying to be a parody of yourself?

If you want to describe a little kid, I'd pick the person that's selectively deciding what to respond to and not totally addressing what the person's saying...

Who brought up Pickering to begin with? My gripe is with the Orioles of the past. Hell, I praise MacPhail on a consistent basis. My problem has been with the administrations who overpay and sign guys like Millar, Payton and not give guys like the people I've said in the past.

I get pleasure out of bashing the Orioles administrations of old, because I hate that they raped this franchise.

OK, you get pleasure out of reliving the past, a past that was treacherous. To each their own, I guess.

Yeah, I'm gonna guess you still have no response to everything else that I said, I wonder what part of what I said in this post will be quoted and what won't be.

[elsid]

And guys like the Millars and Paytons is going to help attendance? No. I don't buy it. Millar, Payton, Baez, Walker..etc. Those were terrible signings. One could also claim Gibbons contract (but that's 20/20). I think it was just dumb managing, true and true. Do you see MacPhail doing what the GM's of old have done? I don't. And with good reason.

Yes, I do. He is signing filler. Sure, it is not for long term deals -- which there hasn't been much said on here about Wiggington getting a 2 yr deal, kind of scary since that is somewhat longterm. If they could go by what you say, they just as well bring up most of the AAA squad, as they would be at minimum. They could do just as good a job.

I think Millar brough plenty of people in. Most people, whether it is correct or not, will come to see names at the ballpark. If you had said Montanez or Moore to most people, they would have been like, "who?". For example, even before ARod (Roid, or whatever you want to call him) got to NY, people went to see Jeter. He is one of the worst SS in MLB, yet people go see him everyday. Kids want to be him. The same to a very lesser extent goes for Millar. He has been there, done that, won the t-shirt/ring/etc.

Not saying you are wrong. Just saying the truth about what people think, including some, if not many owners.

[TommyD4207]

OK, so basically, from what I gather, is that LookitsPuck realizes that trying to praise the Red Sox and Royals for their handling of Pickering is a trainwreck of an argument, so now he's trying to start the "World Series don't mean success" argument all over again.

Yeah, somebody else can participate in that one.

[LookitsPuck]

Jeter can hit. Wigginton is $3 million a year who can actually hit and is relatively young and can fill in at 2B, SS and DH and can platoon very well.

Payton was ridiculously overpaid. Millar provided decent production, save for his last year when he was giving way too much leeway.

Guys like Payton and Millar, I never once heard anyone say they're going to see a game to see those fellas. MacPhail is signing filler but to very inexpensive contracts for short time periods to players with decent upside who can serve roles.

Sorry, this organization has been driven into the ground prior to MacPhail. MacPhail gives me hope.

[LookitsPuck]

OK, so basically, from what I gather, is that LookitsPuck realizes that trying to praise the Red Sox and Royals for their handling of Pickering is a trainwreck of an argument, so now he's trying to start the "World Series don't mean success" argument all over again.

Yeah, somebody else can participate in that one.

You are a joke. I didn't bring up Pickering. I support guys like Pickering, Montanez, Salazar, Knott, House, Cust, and the like over guys like Payton. If you can't see that, you're blind. I know you've always rode my jock, so if you continue to do so, I just won't pay you any mind.

But seriously, when you bring up the tired old Red Sox, 86 year World Series drought argument, who is it to blame? Me for shaking it off, or you for making that pathetic argument?

Come on, man. You'd LOVE to have the success of the Red Sox over the last 11 years. I WOULD LOVE TO. I hate the Orioles ineptitude over the last 11 years. The Red Sox have been run extremely well. The Orioles have not.

Listen, you can continue to ride my jock and play the "quote paragraphs and make trite retorts" game all day long. And I'll think it's dumb unless you can provide substantial evidence. Bringing up "86 years" is just as stupid as chanting Yankees suck when the Orioles ring in yet another losing season.

G'night. I'm out.

[TommyD4207]

You are a joke. I didn't bring up Pickering. I support guys like Pickering, Montanez, Salazar, Knott, House, Cust, and the like over guys like Payton. If you can't see that, you're blind. I know you've always rode my jock, so if you continue to do so, I just won't pay you any mind.

OK, with the ad hominem insults. So far in this thread, you've called other people a joke, a jerk, and a little kid. Seriously, you wonder why people have problems with you?

But seriously, when you bring up the tired old Red Sox, 86 year World Series drought argument, who is it to blame? Me for shaking it off, or you for making that pathetic argument?

Shaking it off? If that's what you wanna call it.

Come on, man. You'd LOVE to have the success of the Red Sox over the last 11 years. I WOULD LOVE TO. I hate the Orioles ineptitude over the last 11 years. The Red Sox have been run extremely well. The Orioles have not.

Right, because that's what I said.

Honestly, man. Are you doing this as some sort of bizarre arguing tactic, or do you really believe that that's what I'm saying?

Listen, you can continue to ride my jock and play the "quote paragraphs and make trite retorts" game all day long. And I'll think it's dumb unless you can provide substantial evidence. Bringing up "86 years" is just as stupid as chanting Yankees suck when the Orioles ring in yet another losing season.

OK, now you're telling me that I'm playing games. The same guy that takes two paragraphs out of an entire post and responds to them out of context and ignores where he's been proved wrong. Right, I'm clearly the one playing games.

And I didn't present hard evidence? You said he tore it up with the Red Sox and Royals.

I provided that he got less AB's with the Red Sox than with the Orioles and that the Royals didn't give him an adequate chance either and that he wasn't as good as you were saying.

Where the hell did you provide evidence of any sort?

G'night. I'm out.

I guess leaving altogether is better than responding to three parts out of an entire post. I guess.

[Moose Milligan]

In a first round knockout, TommyD and Boom Boom win the thread!

[El Gordo]

Jeter can hit. Wigginton is $3 million a year who can actually hit and is relatively young and can fill in at 2B, SS and DH and can platoon very well.

Payton was ridiculously overpaid. Millar provided decent production, save for his last year when he was giving way too much leeway.

Guys like Payton and Millar, I never once heard anyone say they're going to see a game to see those fellas. MacPhail is signing filler but to very inexpensive contracts for short time periods to players with decent upside who can serve roles.

Sorry, this organization has been driven into the ground prior to MacPhail. MacPhail gives me hope.

Payton was overpaid. Jeter is ridiculously overpaid. $20mm for one of the poorest fielding SS, who puts up a .771 OPS?

[Mark Carver]

So, Will Clark was the beginning of the end of the O's? That was at or near the beginning of the current demise of 11 years of futility (or whatever you want to call it).

I won't deny that Pickering should have had a shot to make the club. Did he even get an invite to ST? The problem is, if you can't do it when you are called up, you don't get too many shots.

Pickering posted a .857 OPS in his September callup in 1998, albeit in 24 PA. Lucky that Ripken had a relative in the organization with his first callup in 1981 when he posted a .693 OPS in 40 PA, ehh?

[RShack]

You really are a vehement jerk, you know that?

Truth be told, I'd say a very good portion of this site has had it out for me since I'm a bit crass on my delivery. I guess I don't like the rose coloured sunglasses. So, I'll have my naysayers

I should stop responding after this ridiculous claim.

You're like a little kid.

You are a joke.

Listen, you can continue to ride my jock...

Oh, dear. It looks like folks are riding Mr. Weed's jock again.

I've never actually ridden anyone's jock. Exactly what does it feel like? I'm guessing it must be pretty special, since Mr. Weed keeps bringing it up all the time. For those who know about it, is it really special enough that you think about it all the time?