Cease vs everyone else

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

It doesn’t take any more insight than we see in this thread.

It's like listening to the dude at the local pub rip out a song on the guitar.  It can be nice, and we all enjoy it, but it isn't a professional performance.

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Right and having better players for those 162 games is a good thing.  

Right, but losing Kremer and Gibson, even if we get Cease, doesn't really give us better players.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Pickles said:

It's like listening to the dude at the local pub rip out a song on the guitar.  It can be nice, and we all enjoy it, but it isn't a professional performance.

Ok, but what’s the difference between discussing trade proposals for Dylan Cease and coming up with some proposal for Andrew Painter or Kyle Harrison?    None of it means anything until two teams actually make a real trade.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Right, but losing Kremer and Gibson, even if we get Cease, doesn't really give us better players.

I feel like I’m talking to the cross between wildcard and OldFan. 

[Pickles]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I feel like I’m talking to the cross between wildcard and OldFan. 

If this team had been run by you and your principles, they'd still be winning 55 games a year.

And we can check the transcript on that if you'd like.

[Pickles]

23 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Ok, but what’s the difference between discussing trade proposals for Dylan Cease and coming up with some proposal for Andrew Painter or Kyle Harrison?    None of it means anything until two teams actually make a real trade.

No, I'm not criticizing us discussing it.  It's fun.  I like it.

I'm saying I don't legitimately have the expertise to criticize what Elias does or doesn't do other than in broad strokes.

I'm not going to say black and white what he should or shouldn't do.

[Sports Guy]

10 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

I'm wrong because I sometimes disagree with some of your opinions, which you constantly either change and/or walk back whenever someone (god forbid) disagrees with you rather than actually admit you were wrong? Yep, that sounds about right. 

I'm not overvaluing Woo, you're undervaluing him. A 23 year old pitcher with the amount of service time that he has left who's shown he can pitch at the MLB level is extremely valuable. Players like Santander / Mountcastle (power guys with poor OBP) are a dime a dozen. What they bring to the table isn't unique in this era. 

The Braves deal was a roster dump (nothing more). NIcky Lopez did nothing to move the needle in that trade. 

You have no idea who is/isn't available. We're all just speculating. 

No you are wrong because you just ignore common sense and obvious things.

If I was underrating Woo, I wouldn’t be suggesting a player rated higher than he is.

And yes, a young arm with service time is valuable…but there has to be more than just that to determine one’s value. He has a lot of promise for sure but he is far from some sure thing and was never looked at as some can’t miss prospect. He was a borderline top 5 prospect in his own system and while Seattle had a good system, it’s not what it was 3 years ago.

López was a piece in that deal that the WS clearly wanted or else they wouldn’t have traded for him knowing they are going to have pay him more than what Mateo got. It’s not like Atlanta dumped his salary on them. If they didn’t want him, they would have just non tendered him but the WS clearly wanted him or else he wouldn’t have been in the deal and his inclusion in the deal is the exact scenario I laid out for Mateo. A throw in guy in a larger trade that gives you a stop gap option for a year.

[OriolesMagic83]

Bleacher Report trade for Cease.  Sorry if this has been posted before.  In their other trade proposals they had player rankings not for the O's prospects.  Kjerstad was MLB.com's #24 prospect and I would have to think Basallo is a top 25 prospect on some lists. 

Trade Proposal: Baltimore Orioles get RHP Dylan Cease; Chicago White Sox get 1B/OF Heston Kjerstad and C Samuel Basallo

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors.amp.html

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Bleacher Report trade for Cease.  Sorry if this has been posted before.  In their other trade proposals they had player rankings not for the O's prospects.  Kjerstad was MLB.com's #24 prospect and I would have to think Basallo is a top 25 prospect on some lists. 

Trade Proposal: Baltimore Orioles get RHP Dylan Cease; Chicago White Sox get 1B/OF Heston Kjerstad and C Samuel Basallo

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors.amp.html

Oh boy!   Even the White Sox fans didn’t go that far.   When the Reds traded Luis Castillo he had 1.5 years left and probably a better overall track record than Cease.  They got one top 20 prospect, one around 90, and two lesser prospects.   If the WS want to see if Cease has a great first half like Castillo did and extract more from a playoff contender good luck.

Otherwise, I don’t think they are getting two top 40 prospects back.

 

[Frobby]

40 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Oh boy!   Even the White Sox fans didn’t go that far.   When the Reds traded Luis Castillo he had 1.5 years left and probably a better overall track record than Cease.  They got one top 20 prospect, one around 90, and two lesser prospects.   If the WS want to see if Cease has a great first half like Castillo did and extract more from a playoff contender good luck.

Otherwise, I don’t think they are getting two top 40 prospects back.

 

I don’t know.  A top 20 prospect is generally a lot more valuable than a top 40 is.  Also, the second guy, Edwin Arroyo, ended up ranked 65/44/61 by BA-MLB-BP after the season.  

On the other hand, Castillo had a career 125 ERA+ at the time of the trade and was having an excellent season.  Cease has a 113 ERA+ for his career and is coming off a down year.  Even considering that Castillo had less service time remaining at the time of the trade than Cease has now, I’d say Castillo was the more valuable trade piece.
 

[24fps]

56 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Bleacher Report trade for Cease.  Sorry if this has been posted before.  In their other trade proposals they had player rankings not for the O's prospects.  Kjerstad was MLB.com's #24 prospect and I would have to think Basallo is a top 25 prospect on some lists. 

Trade Proposal: Baltimore Orioles get RHP Dylan Cease; Chicago White Sox get 1B/OF Heston Kjerstad and C Samuel Basallo

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors.amp.html

If Kjerstad has to be the headliner, so be it, but I'm sure there's a fair enough deal for Cease that leaves Holliday, Mayo and Basallo off the table. 

[E-D-D-I-E]

58 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Bleacher Report trade for Cease.  Sorry if this has been posted before.  In their other trade proposals they had player rankings not for the O's prospects.  Kjerstad was MLB.com's #24 prospect and I would have to think Basallo is a top 25 prospect on some lists. 

Trade Proposal: Baltimore Orioles get RHP Dylan Cease; Chicago White Sox get 1B/OF Heston Kjerstad and C Samuel Basallo

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors.amp.html

I would be very disappointed if we made that trade. I am 1] an advocate for young guys to play 2] an advocate for trading some of these prospects for pitching help. I would still hate that trade.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t know.  A top 20 prospect is generally a lot more valuable than a top 40 is.  Also, the second guy, Edwin Arroyo, ended up ranked 65/44/61 by BA-MLB-BP after the season.  

On the other hand, Castillo had a career 125 ERA+ at the time of the trade and was having an excellent season.  Cease has a 113 ERA+ for his career and is coming off a down year.  Even considering that Castillo had less service time remaining at the time of the trade than Cease has now, I’d say Castillo was the more valuable trade piece.
 

I think mlb has Kjerstad at 24 and Basallo at 40.    I don’t think Elias parts with either.  

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, 24fps said:

If Kjerstad has to be the headliner, so be it, but I'm sure there's a fair enough deal for Cease that leaves Holliday, Mayo and Basallo off the table. 

I’d probably do Kjerstad + Ortiz + Povich despite the trade simulator suggesting that would be a bad trade for us (I think it undervalues all four players).  Personally, I believe that would be a really good deal for both sides.  I know many here won’t agree, but I’d do that all day if I were Elias.

[Malike]

I'd rather kick the tires on a year of Burnes. Would likely cost less than Cease.