Mike Elias said O's upward path will "involve the major league payroll" Melewski

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sure, we all wonder that.  And, there are always going to be questions like that.

To be clear, I want a team that has a good shot to make a deep playoff run every year.  That doesn’t mean they’ll actually make a deep playoff run every year.   But I want a team that’s capable of it.   And yes, we need a World Series title in there somewhere.   But even spending a lot of money doesn’t guarantee that.  

Sure it doesn't.

Of course it doesn't.

But if you don't win a ring and you don't spend you have to question how important winning really was.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure it doesn't.

Of course it doesn't.

But if you don't win a ring and you don't spend you have to question how important winning really was.

I can’t disagree with this, especially when the team appears to be making very large profits.   We will see how the next few years go, both winning-wise and spending-wise.

[E-D-D-I-E]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Win or win the World Series?

As fun as 2023 was I can't help but wonder if the playoffs would have gone better if the O's had done more at the deadline.

Could not agree more. It was Elias's first failure of this organization. As good of a job as he has done, I call what I see. Quick who made the mlb playoffs in 2011......No one knows or cares. Flags fly forever. IF Elias pulls another #4 starter and "Hail Mary" bat, the blame still goes on him. He has the pieces to make a us a true world series contender. You don't have the money, use the cards you do have.

[ThomasTomasz]

1 minute ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

Could not agree more. It was Elias's first failure of this organization. As good of a job as he has done, I call what I see. Quick who made the mlb playoffs in 2011......No one knows or cares. Flags fly forever. IF Elias pulls another #4 starter and "Hail Mary" bat, the blame still goes on him. He has the pieces to make a us a true world series contender. You don't have the money, use the cards you do have.

As much as I think he made the right decision to stand pat at the time, I do think you have to figure that you can always add something better.  

At this point, the Orioles have the #1 minor league system by just about every measure.  Our first big international signing- Samuel Basallo- just got a cup of coffee at AA.  That pipeline, which takes a while to get going due to the young age of the players signing, is just now kicking in.  

This is the perfect time to start making trades and finding matches in organizations like the Mariners who have excess young MLB pitching.  At the same time, I also wouldn’t consider 2/$44 for Stroman something that could deter us from a TORP and a pitcher who could take the ball on Game 1 of a series and then come back around in a must-win situation.  

[E-D-D-I-E]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sure, we all wonder that.  And, there are always going to be questions like that.

To be clear, I want a team that has a good shot to make a deep playoff run every year.  That doesn’t mean they’ll actually make a deep playoff run every year.   But I want a team that’s capable of it.   And yes, we need a World Series title in there somewhere.   But even spending a lot of money doesn’t guarantee that.  

Agreed 100%.

However, in order to do that you need to utilize all your options to fill the holes your club has. Spending money in Latin America on a development camp, won't fill your 3rd base hole on your big league roster. Not today. IMO, thats what happened at the break. Elias wouldn't part with prospects and Angelos wouldn't spend enough to get a deal done. The Club/Fans/Players lost. Walk over, look down, decide not too.

 

[Pickles]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm going to disagree with your interpretation and even if you are correct, it wasn't perceived that way by the fanbase. 

He's not going to make a mistake like that again.

People are stupid.  What can you say?

I don't think Elias made a mistake, so I don't think he's going to not make another one like that.

It's not Elias if people want to misinterpret his words.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

People are stupid.  What can you say?

I don't think Elias made a mistake, so I don't think he's going to not make another one like that.

It's not Elias if people want to misinterpret his words.

I mean, he definitely has said he has the ability to raise the payroll. He has said that Angelos is letting him run things as he wants. 
 

There is no doubt about that.  Now, I do agree with you about the lift off stuff and how that was interpreted.

End of the day, this is on Angelos, not Elias…we all know that.

 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I mean, he definitely has said he has the ability to raise the payroll. He has said that Angelos is letting him run things as he wants. 
 

There is no doubt about that.  Now, I do agree with you about the lift off stuff and how that was interpreted.

End of the day, this is on Angelos, not Elias…we all know that.

 

I mean payroll did increase last year, and it will increase again going forward, but it will be mostly on paying the guys already here.

I do not expect them to surf the top of the FA market.  They're just not going to do it, and they don't need to do it.

Anyone expect that is going to be disappointed, again and again.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

I mean payroll did increase last year, and it will increase again going forward, but it will be mostly on paying the guys already here.

I do not expect them to surf the top of the FA market.  They're just not going to do it, and they don't need to do it.

Anyone expect that is going to be disappointed, again and again.

Agreed but there is zero reason that they can’t sign, for example, Nathan Eovaldi…or sign Gray to a 3/70 deal….or something else along those lines.

I don’t even want them out there signing FAs to 9 figure deals. I think that’s just dumb to do.

But overall, they absolutely have to do more to supplement this team both now and going forward, especially if you aren’t going to stress pitching in the draft (I know they did in 2023 but not at the top and we don’t know if that will be the case going forward).

 

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Agreed but there is zero reason that they can’t sign, for example, Nathan Eovaldi…or sign Gray to a 3/70 deal….or something else along those lines.

I don’t even want them out there signing FAs to 9 figure deals. I think that’s just dumb to do.

But overall, they absolutely have to do more to supplement this team both now and going forward, especially if you aren’t going to stress pitching in the draft (I know they did in 2023 but not at the top and we don’t know if that will be the case going forward).

 

They can and will sign FAs.  And hopefully, even a step up from the Fraziers and Gibsons of the world.

But I won't say they NEED to do anything, until they start to not wildy exceed all reasonable expectations.

As Frobby said, I don't care if they never sign FAs as long as they keep winning a lot of games and having reasonable chances at deep playoff runs.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't get mad at water for being wet.  It's as simple as that.  

To anyone that thought Angelos would spend after a 101 win season with one of the lowest payrolls in the game, where's the logic?  JA just looked at Elias and said "We fielded a team that won 101 games, spent hardly anything to do it, why increase the payroll?  Run it back in 2024, let's do it again."

I'm with @Frobby, I don't care how much they spend, but just win.  And I realize that's going to come at the expense of securing guys like Adley and Gunnar to extensions but it is what it is, so I'll enjoy them while they're here.  No one can say they didn't see what's going to come, coming.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[Pickles]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't get mad at water for being wet.  It's as simple as that.  

To anyone that thought Angelos would spend after a 101 win season with one of the lowest payrolls in the game, where's the logic?  JA just looked at Angelos and said "We fielded a team that won 101 games, spent hardly anything to do it, why increase the payroll?  Run it back in 2024, let's do it again."

I'm with @Frobby, I don't care how much they spend, but just win.  And I realize that's going to come at the expense of securing guys like Adley and Gunnar to extensions but it is what it is, so I'll enjoy them while they're here.  No one can say they didn't see what's going to come, coming.

That's where I am at.

If the team in 3-4 years starts losing talent because they insist on keeping sub 100 mil payrolls, AND they are unable to replace said talent in-house, then I'll start to complain about payroll.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

That's where I am at.

If the team in 3-4 years starts losing talent because they insist on keeping sub 100 mil payrolls, AND they are unable to replace said talent in-house, then I'll start to complain about payroll.

FWIW, BB-ref projects that our Arb eligible players will cost $35 mm more in 2025 than in 2024, with 21 players elugible next year including Adley, Bradish and Kremer coming on line, among others.   

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

FWIW, BB-ref projects that our Arb eligible players will cost $35 mm more in 2025 than in 2024, with 21 players elugible next year including Adley, Bradish and Kremer coming on line, among others.   

Go look at the tender thread posted today.  There's significant raises coming to a lot of players this offseason as well.

The payroll is going to increase organically.

Despite the Rangers' success this past year, a path that isn't viable for teams unless they can extort local governments for public tax money, it's a sign of a healthy, sustainable organization for the payroll to increase on paying your own players, because they're good and successful, rather than poaching at FA rates the good and successful players from other organizations.  

[Sports Guy]

50 minutes ago, Pickles said:

That's where I am at.

If the team in 3-4 years starts losing talent because they insist on keeping sub 100 mil payrolls, AND they are unable to replace said talent in-house, then I'll start to complain about payroll.

Yea, it’s always better to be reactive than proactive.