Mike Elias said O's upward path will "involve the major league payroll" Melewski

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Os are getting ready to have that type of money handed to them too.

As geschinger points out below, it won't drive an increase in attendance the way a new stadium does.  I mean, does anybody really think people are going to show up to see the new scoreboard?

I went to the opening playoff game this year; it was the first time I'd been in Camden yards in 20 years.

It's noticeably dingier and...... just sparse... than any other park I've been into recently.

For God's sake, they don't even have televisions set up in the concourses.

[interloper]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

As geschinger points out below, it won't drive an increase in attendance the way a new stadium does.  I mean, does anybody really think people are going to show up to see the new scoreboard?

I went to the opening playoff game this year; it was the first time I'd been in Camden yards in 20 years.

It's noticeably dingier and...... just sparse... than any other park I've been into recently.

For God's sake, they don't even have televisions set up in the concourses.

The sound system is absolutely abysmal. Has to be one of the worst of all the stadiums.  

I think this is less about ticket sales and more about the Orioles needing to keep up the reputation of the park, because it's slipping a bit. It's still beautiful but it's a noticeably poor audio/visual experience. That's before we talk about the food/concessions, which were - by far - the worst I can ever remember in my years going to the park. 

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, geschinger said:

A new stadium equated to ~$40m increase in gate receipts for the Rangers.  What is $600m in improvements to Camden Yards going to equate to an increase in gate receipts to the Orioles?  Can't say I've seen any estimates or guesses on that.

No idea.  I expect a lot of it to fall directly into the owner's pocket.

I also don't think it will manifest as much in gate receipts as the amount spent in the facility (Gambling).

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

The sound system is absolutely abysmal. Has to be one of the worst of all the stadiums.  

I think this is less about ticket sales and more about the Orioles needing to keep up the reputation of the park, because it's slipping a bit. It's still beautiful but it's a noticeably poor audio/visual experience. That's before we talk about the food/concessions, which were - by far - the worst I can ever remember in my years going to the park. 

The skeleton of the stadium still can't be beat.

But they are clearly pinching pennies in the maintenance and operation of the stadium.

Giant flat screen TVs are dirt cheap.  Literally every stadium I've been in for the last decade plus, has had their concourses and even bathrooms plastered with screens.  It was very noticeable that there was nothing in the concourse of Camden.

It was literally like stepping back into the 90s.

[geschinger]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

The bigger issue for me is if they're going to spend to keep their own talent.  I am admittedly attached to Adley but I can see a scenario where it makes sense to let him walk.  

But not ponying up to keep guys like Gunnar, Holliday, Basallo, or whatever guys really step up and become core, indispensable players to a team that's always in the playoffs will be pretty inexcusable.  Like, you don't draft and develop a guy like Gunnar, IMO, to see him walk at the first opportunity.  The Braves have locked up their core for awhile and should be contenders well into the last half of this decade, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to do the same.

In summary, not spending in FA...kind of stupid not to, but whatever.  But not spending to extend some of these guys?  A bit ridiculous.  

I hope they are exploring extending someone like Gunnar now.  I'm not sure I see the case for extending Adley as unless he is risk averse it doesn't make sense for him, and it doesn't make sense for the Orioles to go the number of years he'll get on the FA market considering his age and position.

If Elias was not held back by Angelos, I'd be very surprised if his approach to young talent would differ from the approach Houston has taken.  Try to extend players but be willing to walk away if it would require committing well past the players prime age years.

Gunnar is in a situation that is prime for a win/win extension.  7-8 years so he gets paid now and he's still in line to get a silly money FA contract from someone else as a ~29-30-year-old.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

The major league payroll will start to rise significantly in 2025 through arbitration raises alone.  Frobby quoted 35 mil for 2025 alone in a thread this very morning.

So yes, even 2-3 year FA contracts will coincide with internal increases of payroll.  Again, that's not to say they can't/shouldn't sign some FA, but it is acknowledging mathematical realities.

 

I want to be clear.  I believe the Orioles could afford to spend much more than they’re spending, based on the annual estimates Forbes puts out, as well as their own past spending history.  The team is going to get more expensive regardless of FA acquisitions the next couple of years, but not to the extent that the O’s couldn’t afford some outside acquisitions.  

I just choose not to agonize over how much money they spend.  We’ll see what they do.
 

[Pickles]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I want to be clear.  I believe the Orioles could afford to spend much more than they’re spending, based on the annual estimates Forbes puts out, as well as their own past spending history.  The team is going to get more expensive regardless of FA acquisitions the next couple of years, but not to the extent that the O’s couldn’t afford some outside acquisitions.  

I just choose not to agonize over how much money they spend.  We’ll see what they do.
 

I get that and wasn't trying to suggest differently or put words in your mouth.

[Sports Guy]

36 minutes ago, Pickles said:

As geschinger points out below, it won't drive an increase in attendance the way a new stadium does.  I mean, does anybody really think people are going to show up to see the new scoreboard?

I went to the opening playoff game this year; it was the first time I'd been in Camden yards in 20 years.

It's noticeably dingier and...... just sparse... than any other park I've been into recently.

For God's sake, they don't even have televisions set up in the concourses.

They absolutely could put things in the park to help push attract people. It won’t be the same impact as a new stadium but if they do it correctly, it will help and, any revenue they get off of it is basically found money for them.

[Osornot]

ughhhhh. Someday I will learn.  Fell for another "Payroll" topic. Nice job pulling that football away Lucy...

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They absolutely could put things in the park to help push attract people. It won’t be the same impact as a new stadium but if they do it correctly, it will help and, any revenue they get off of it is basically found money for them.

Like gambling.

House always wins.

[Pickles]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They absolutely could put things in the park to help push attract people. It won’t be the same impact as a new stadium but if they do it correctly, it will help and, any revenue they get off of it is basically found money for them.

Sure they could do stuff, but it won't make more than a marginal difference.

Consistently winning is what's going to put people in the seats.

[24fps]

Translation: Payroll trajectory will remain the same; specifics TBD.

I take my hat off to Elias for being able to embellish that simple message so eloquently and especially to Steve Melewski for being able to knock out around 700 words explaining it.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Sure they could do stuff, but it won't make more than a marginal difference.

Consistently winning is what's going to put people in the seats.

Well sure but i disagree about the marginal difference. If you attract even just 300 people more per game, that’s a lot of money extrapolated out over a full season…and you didn’t spend any of your own money to do it. 
 

It’s all free money and it all counts.

[Going Underground]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

They also just had a billion dollar stadium built for them by taxpayers.  That was what funded their lavish spending.

The financing for public money was capped at $500 million.  The Rangers got private financing for $600 million.

 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Well sure but i disagree about the marginal difference. If you attract even just 300 people more per game, that’s a lot of money extrapolated out over a full season…and you didn’t spend any of your own money to do it. 
 

It’s all free money and it all counts.

I mean 300 a game at $75 a head comes out to about 1.8 million.  So not nothing.  And the things I'd do if you 1.8 million out in front of me are probably more shameful than I'd like to admit to myself.

But for a MLB franchise 1.8 million annually is a rounding error; it's the definition of marginal.

But yeah, it is free money, and frankly, they don't deserve it.