Bloomberg: Carlyle Group/David Rubenstein In Talks To Purchase Orioles

[LookinUp]

2 hours ago, TradeAngelos said:

My confidence in John Angelos being able to close a multi billion dollar deal without screwing it up in some way shape or form is basically zero. Can't even get a lease signed, but is going to go through the process of the sale without messing it up? Wake me up when it is done I'll be the first in line to buy tickets. Until then it is just another rumor. 

I just watched Dan Snyder sell the Commanders. If anyone can spoil a deal, it's him.

You hire an army of tax attorneys and a major bank to walk you through the sale. He has to consider his family, I'm sure. But honestly, a lot of this is dictated by his father's wishes/will. Between that and tax law, it's essentially forcing a sale, IMO. I think that's one thing you take away from the intra-family lawsuit.

The only question is the timing being before or after PAs death. Beyond that, the lawyers handle the process.

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I guess we can agree to disagree on that point. IMO they represented the SAME kind of acquisitions that we made during last offseason (the likes of the Kyle Gibson's of the world). They are made with the primary motivation being finance driven and NOT winning. They are mediocre players at best who serve as roster filler/fodder, which is fine when you are rebuilding/tanking/intentionally losing for draft status/don't really want to win at the Big League level because you don't have all the organizational pieces in place, or whatever we want to call in. BUT when you are one of the best teams in the league and have not spent ANY MONEY in years, IMO it's horrid that you would continue to operate that way and bypass LEGIT shots to try and win it all in order to save a few bucks.

I believe that Elias is a competitor (like almost all people in his position within the game) and no one can argue that he is very competent when it comes to eyeing talent. I also believe that John Angelos' primary motivation/concern was to make/stash as much money from the team as he possibly could WHILE spending as little as he could.

When you add those 2 things together (which seem very plausible to me) I think I am drawing a reasonable conclusion that John Angelos was a very serious impediment/obstacle to Elias, rather than any kind of supportive ally/asset.

When it comes time, all good executives need their owner/boss to loosen the purse strings and given them the financial support necessary so that they can make moves to help supplement the team and hopefully put them over the top. 

I didn't have that much critique of John Angelos before 2023 just questions, curiosities, a few concerns, and some hopes. But in 2023 (starting with the offseason and continuing throughout the season) it became quite clear to me that he had little to no interest in the Orioles ever becoming champions. I don't want to ever feel like as a fan that I want the team to win/succeed more than the owner/leader of the organization. To me he felt almost agnostic in regards to the team winning a World Series.

Yep, agree to disagree.  

[MTMan13]

20 hours ago, SemperFi said:

The allowed MLB debt ratio is 10X EBITA but it's loosely enforced.  Forbes lists Orioles debt at 13% of value which at $1.7b would be ~$220m.  MLB teams had an average credit line of $125m, I'm guessing the Orioles debt with MLB is higher as there are some teams that hold no debt.

Thank you very much. Wonder who has the most, how recent buys have been financed. Do you have a link where I could read more on the finance rules, the Forbes article? Appreciate it. 

[Rbiggs2525]

Just to make sure my thoughts aren’t twisted in this thread. I never said Rubenstein is a bad person. I also never said all Billionaires are bad people. I believe there a billionaires in certain blue collar industries like Transportation, Oil, and Building  that are good people. It wasn’t but 15 years ago the Mets had an owner that was kicked out of baseball. He will be vetted and if he passes I will be all for it. I also want to give John Angelo’s credit for building the best Oriole organization in 40 years. He finally did something his dad would never do and gutted the team.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

Just to make sure my thoughts aren’t twisted in this thread. I never said Rubenstein is a bad person. I also never said all Billionaires are bad people. I believe there a billionaires in certain blue collar industries like Transportation, Oil, and Building  that are good people. It wasn’t but 15 years ago the Mets had an owner that was kicked out of baseball. He will be vetted and if he passes I will be all for it. I also want to give John Angelo’s credit for building the best Oriole organization in 40 years. He finally did something his dad would never do and gutted the team.

Odd take but OK.

[Number5]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

and the capital gains tax issue

If it benefits the state to do so in the big picture, couldn't the state waive the state tax on this if that would push the deal over the hump?  Just a thought.

[UMDTerrapins]

1 hour ago, One eyed Bird said:

So you are not excited just incredibly happy, got it

Demonstrating your inability to comprehend a fairly obvious distinction isn't the message board zinger you think it is. 

[accinfo]

7 minutes ago, Number5 said:

If it benefits the state to do so in the big picture, couldn't the state waive the state tax on this if that would push the deal over the hump?  Just a thought.

They can’t waive the Federal Capital Gains tax which is 20% of give or take a Billion dollars.  The Orioles are not going to be sold until Peter Angelos passes away.

[Big Mac]

43 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I just watched Dan Snyder sell the Commanders. If anyone can spoil a deal, it's him.

You hire an army of tax attorneys and a major bank to walk you through the sale. He has to consider his family, I'm sure. But honestly, a lot of this is dictated by his father's wishes/will. Between that and tax law, it's essentially forcing a sale, IMO. I think that's one thing you take away from the intra-family lawsuit.

The only question is the timing being before or after PAs death. Beyond that, the lawyers handle the process.

This is correct, although you need a lot more attorneys than just tax attorneys.  However,, I've seen plenty of deals fall apart because the client will just simply not listen to the advice of their team of bankers and attorneys.  

[UMDTerrapins]

6 minutes ago, accinfo said:

They can’t waive the Federal Capital Gains tax which is 20% of give or take a Billion dollars.  The Orioles are not going to be sold until Peter Angelos passes away.

IIRC, part of the previous rumor was that a $1.1B offer was increased to $1.4B. If that was an increase over a previously agreeable sale price to fully cover the cap gains implications of a sale prior to PA's passing, in order to facilitate an "immediate" sale, it is a possibility. If I was trying to buy the Orioles for example, I would be willing to pay a little more now to lock down the purchase immediately. First off, who knows how long PA will be around? How much might the eventual price escalate by waiting? How much opportunity cost are you losing by waiting? What other buyers might emerge in the future? Will the value go up if the O's win a World Series in the meantime? We just have no idea what's really happening with the Angelos family and any prospective buyers at this point. But an eventual sale seems inevitable, and entirely possible to happen at any time. Probably not as soon as most of us would prefer, which would be today. 

[TradeAngelos]

Well that was fun while it lasted. A whole 24hrs. 

https://x.com/afkostka/status/1733227345866051886?s=20

[TradeAngelos]

 

[SemperFi]

51 minutes ago, MTMan13 said:

Thank you very much. Wonder who has the most, how recent buys have been financed. Do you have a link where I could read more on the finance rules, the Forbes article? Appreciate it. 

No problem.  

Forbes valuations-click on the team for more specifics  https://tinyurl.com/3ebaw2fs

MLB CBA  https://www.mlbplayers.com/cba

Debt service

Teams have a little more leniency in the debt service rule, which requires most teams to keep their debt to less than eight times their earnings (or in the case of teams that have a new stadium, 12 times). In the prior deal, the first $75 million in debt wasn’t counted toward compliance. For 2022 and 2023 fiscal years, it’s $125 million, before dropping to $100 million for the rest of the CBA.

Fitch bond ratings (some interesting stuff)  https://tinyurl.com/bdhj325h

 

[ThomasTomasz]

1 hour ago, TradeAngelos said:

These "fixes" are literally just basic SOP that every team in MLB has. There is nothing groundbreaking about international investment, an analytics dept, or developing talent. 

No, there isn’t, but when you’ve taken an organization that was a laughingstock for the past 20-ish years as far as being on the cutting edge (analytics), had next to no international investments and had a bottom of the barrel farm system into an organization that has a top 100 prospect from it’s first international draft class under ME, an analytics department that is world class and a farm/development system that is spoken in the same breaths as the Dodgers and Rays……..you’ve done close to a damn miracle in five seasons.  

That’s what is groundbreaking.  Fixing what was an organization stuck in the Stone Age, to one where we’re in the top 10% in analytics and development.  International scouting may get there one day, but that is the one place where we won’t see immediate results. 

[Roll Tide]

12 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

 

BOO