Fangraphs’ Ben Clemens: “C’mon Orioles, Do Something!”

[interloper]

3 hours ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I mean, it's a nice article. Even if he's stating the obvious, he's stating it really well and showing how the O's aren't acting like any other team in their position seemingly would.

Then he calls Means an innings eater and Kremer a reasonable fifth starter and I wonder if he's sniffing glue.

I'm not sure why you think Kremer isn't a reasonable 5th starter? I'm not the biggest fan but a 4.12 ERA over 170+ innings is pretty much the definition of a reasonable 5th starter. 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I'm not sure why you think Kremer isn't a reasonable 5th starter? I'm not the biggest fan but a 4.12 ERA over 170+ innings is pretty much the definition of a reasonable 5th starter. 

Name me five teams that have four better starters than that.

[Flash- bd]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Name me five teams that have four better starters than that.

Indeed. Kremer is chronically underrated everywhere, it seems. 

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Name me five teams that have four better starters than that.

Yeah like... that's crazy. I know he flopped in the playoffs and he can be a little frustrating at times but damn. Did people not watch the games? Like there's a world in which we trade for Cease and he's literally just Dean Kremer. 

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm not sure why you think Kremer isn't a reasonable 5th starter? I'm not the biggest fan but a 4.12 ERA over 170+ innings is pretty much the definition of a reasonable 5th starter. 

It’s pretty much the definition of a very good 4th starter/borderline 3rd starter.   

Edited January 19 by Frobby

[Frobby]

I agree with most of what Clemens said, but somehow when a third-party writer lectures Elias on what he “needs” to do, it kind of irritates me.   Moreso than if one of our posters wrote the exact same thing.   

I also just continue to be amazed at people’s lack of patience.   I really don’t care if Elias takes until February 13 to make his move, and I’m not at all surprised that he hasn’t acquired a starter yet.   I predicted all along that nothing would happen until the second half of January or even later.   Sure, it’s excruciating for us to discuss the same subject every day for three months, but that’s how it goes for teams that try to drive a hard bargain.   
 

[Flash- bd]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s pretty much the definition of a very good 4th starter/bordelihe 3rd starter.   

Last two seasons: 

298 IP, 3.74 ERA, 4.21 FIP

Not sure how you can make an argument for that being anything less than a good 4th starter. I'm not even sure, like I said in my post on the last page, that there's a very good argument that John Means should be considered higher than him on the rotation hierarchy. 

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Name me five teams that have four better starters than that.

Yea, this is undoubtedly true. Calling Kremer a #5 is wrong and like you said, you would be hard pressed to find any team with 4 better starters.

OTOH, there is a lot of decline potential in his stats..but even then, you still be hard pressed to find teams with 4 better starters.

[btdart20]

18 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm not sure why you think Kremer isn't a reasonable 5th starter? I'm not the biggest fan but a 4.12 ERA over 170+ innings is pretty much the definition of a reasonable 5th starter. 

That's not what @ChosenOne21was saying.  He was questioning Clemens' sanity by only having Kremer as a "reasonable" #5 (vs. something higher).  And Means' history isn't quite IP eater category.  At least that's how I read the comment.

[interloper]

Just now, btdart20 said:

That's not what @ChosenOne21was saying.  He was questioning Clemens' sanity by only having Kremer as a "reasonable" #5 (vs. something higher).  And Means' history isn't quite IP eater category.  At least that's how I read the comment.

Ah, I could see that now that I read it again. Good call. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

 I'm not even sure, like I said in my post on the last page, that there's a very good argument that John Means should be considered higher than him on the rotation hierarchy. 

I think it’s very much up in the air whether Means will be better than Kremer or vice-versa.  One things for sure, Means has never made 32 starts in a season or thrown 170+ innings, as Kremer now has.   I hope Means will be durable enough to get through the full season healthy, but I’m a lot more confident in Kremer’s ability to do so.   

[deward]

31 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I agree.  I was responding to the premise of the article, which admittedly, I haven't read.

That's not really the premise of the article. Clemens isn't arguing for Elias to do something for the sake of doing something, he's essentially arguing that it would be a potential waste of a very good team and opportunity if Elias ultimately ends up not making any moves to buttress areas of concern (like the rotation) due to reluctance to part with prospects or commit money. His point boils down to one sentence:

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, deward said:

That's not really the premise of the article. Clemens isn't arguing for Elias to do something for the sake of doing something, he's essentially arguing that it would be a potential waste of a very good team and opportunity if Elias ultimately ends up not making any moves to buttress areas of concern (like the rotation) due to reluctance to part with prospects or commit money. His point boils down to one sentence:

They said the same sh last year.  And they were wrong.

[deward]

4 hours ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I mean, it's a nice article. Even if he's stating the obvious, he's stating it really well and showing how the O's aren't acting like any other team in their position seemingly would.

Then he calls Means an innings eater and Kremer a reasonable fifth starter and I wonder if he's sniffing glue.

I assume you missed the sentence in that paragraph where he said he was trying to build a best-case scenario for the current rotation?

[deward]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

They said the same sh last year.  And they were wrong.

There's a point where that becomes complacency.