Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

40 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

According to the socials, all he did was lift, hit, and eat all Off-season…..oh, and get married.  He is very noticeably bigger.  I blame married life for swinging through that breaking ball.  It takes a toll.  

Definitely put on some muscle this past off-season.

[Just Regular]

I didn't rewind it or anything but in addition to faking out the runner on Adley's airmailed Throw #1, I thought on Adley's good Throw #2 Holliday showed nice hands completing that play.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Just Regular said:

I didn't rewind it or anything but in addition to faking out the runner on Adley's airmailed Throw #1, I thought on Adley's good Throw #2 Holliday showed nice hands completing that play.

Agreed.  

[banks703]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s funny that he’s patting himself on the back and he’s really telling a bs story.  

LOL 

Sure thing, pal. Remember when I tried to get you to put your mouth where your keyboard mouth is and make a ban bet with you that he would end up at second? Crickets there if I recall.

 

 

 

[banks703]

2 hours ago, emmett16 said:

Can you post vide on any of the above to illustrate what you say he’s doing poorly vs. what you think he should be doing?  Genuinely curious.  

I don’t have any. I’m going off of the 25+ games that I watched him play this last year. I’m sure there is enough video out there if you look for it. Not to be a putz to you but that’s just not something that I’m going to do. We’ll see him play during ST. I’m sure that more will see what I’ve described.

I think the contention is that if he doesn’t end up as a SS he’s somehow a lesser player. I disagree. I think he’s Robinson Cano and paired with Gunnar, they’re going to be a ridiculous offensive tandem up the middle.

He will get better with reps, time, maturity, etc. all of the things that I have agreed with as it pertains to his development but I just don’t see him as a good defensive SS. Much better suited for 2B in my opinion but we’ll see. Elias and Hyde and company obviously know more. It’s only a good thing if he grows into an adequate SS. It’s not like I’m rooting against him there. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, banks703 said:

LOL 

Sure thing, pal. Remember when I tried to get you to put your mouth where your keyboard mouth is and make a ban bet with you that he would end up at second? Crickets there if I recall.

 

 

 

He hasnt ended up at second. He is playing there this year, when he appears to coming to the majors earlier than most thought because they are in position to do it and because Gunnar is better than him right now. And even with that, he will play at SS at times.  How Westburg plays at third base will matter too (I think he will be fine there but if not, that could have some impact as well).

If he was just going to the minors, he would still be at SS although I suspect he would get more starts at second than last year because he would be up here sometime into the season.

 

 

[banks703]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He hasnt ended up at second.
 

He is playing there this year

Dude, I can’t. LOL. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, banks703 said:

Dude, I can’t. LOL. 

Do you seriously not understand the difference? 

[foxfield]

You two are debating mile #1 of a 26 mile marathon. Both make some points but the answer is down the road. 
 

The only point I think is wrong is that JH could not be as valuable if he never fully lands at SS. 
 

I mean if I have Cal Ripken and Alex Rodriguez I ain’t gonna complain. And I ain’t worried about one of em not being happy. I utilize them in the way that works best. These are phenomenal problems to have. And the answer in March of 24 isn’t necessarily going to be the answer in July of 24 and may not be the same answer in 25 or 26. 
 

What if one of the International kids blossom and we have another. These are first world issues that 5 years ag we would have died for. 
 

I am open to multiple possibilities and believe that future development and health could alter what we see today. But I sure am happy we have the resources to even have this conversation. 
 

I am here for the ride. 

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Do you seriously not understand the difference? 

But that was always baked into his position though.  He's right, and he's been right.  Kudos where it's due.

His position has always been: He's better suited to 2nd than SS; he could be adequate at SS but he won't play it a lot here because the O's have better defensive options there and prioritize defense.

 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, foxfield said:

You two are debating mile #1 of a 26 mile marathon. Both make some points but the answer is down the road. 
 

Thus my point. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

But that was always baked into his position though.  He's right, and he's been right.  Kudos where it's due.

His position has always been: He's better suited to 2nd than SS; he could be adequate at SS but he won't play it a lot here because the O's have better defensive options there and prioritize defense.

 

No, his position has also been that he can’t play SS and that he’s not good and won’t be good(something he said in this thread the other day).

Thats where his argument loses all credibility. Thats where he is literally on an island by himself.

I am Not saying he’s wrong about where Holliday is right now. In fact, I have never said he was wrong about the right now.

What I’m disagreeing with is that he can’t end up at SS and that he can’t improve and be above average over there. That isn’t my opinion. I have yet to really see him outside of some video here and there.  

It’s the opinion of basically every evaluator out there including the Os themselves. 
 

His book isn’t close to being written yet. 

Edited February 25 by Sports Guy

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

No, his position has also been that he can’t play SS and that he’s not good and won’t be good(something he said in this thread the other day).

Thats where his argument loses all credibility. Thats where he is literally on an island by himself.

I am Not saying he’s wrong about where Holliday is right now. In fact, I have never said he was wrong. What I’m disagreeing with is that he can’t end up at SS and that he can’t improve and be above average over there. That isn’t my opinion. I have yet to really see him outside of some video here and there. 

It’s the opinion of basically every evaluator out there including the Os themselves. 

Well, I won't follow him out on that limb, if that's an accurate summary of his position.

I need to see him a lot more to form a strong opinion myself one way or another.

Today was literally the first time I watched him play live.

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

Well, I won't follow him out on that limb, if that's an accurate summary of his position.

I need to see him a lot more to form a strong opinion myself one way or another.

Today was literally the first time I watched him play live.

 

I do as well but I also trust what Elias said when he’s drafted him. I trust what every evaluator is saying.

The one thing every one (other than Law which is still so odd to me) seems to agree on is that the arm isn’t good enough and needs to get stronger. As with almost every 20 year old player (and he was 19 when he last played), he has things to clean up in his game.

His athleticism isn’t in question. Aspects of his defense at SS are not in question. Even JJ Cooper, who just wrote an article about his subpar arm, said he’s not saying he can’t succeed at SS.

He has to improve. He has to want to improve. Whatever he is right now isn’t who he will be in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year or 2 years. 
 

Now, I will say this in terms of just pure right and wrong about my own argument and while this was never specifically talked about, if you had told me last season that he was playing a full MLB season in 2024, I would have said he would be the everyday SS by OD 2025.  He may not be ready to be the everyday SS as quickly as I thought he would. I mean, he may be but I think it’s much more in doubt right now than it was.

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I do as well but I also trust what Elias said when he’s drafted him. I trust what every evaluator is saying.

The one thing every one (other than Law which is still so odd to me) seems to agree on is that the arm isn’t good enough and needs to get stronger. As with almost every 20 year old player (and he was 19 when he last played), he has things to clean up in his game.

His athleticism isn’t in question. Aspects of his defense at SS are not in question. Even JJ Cooper, who just wrote an article about his subpar arm, said he’s not saying he can’t succeed at SS.

He has to improve. He has to want to improve. Whatever he is right now isn’t who he will be in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year or 2 years. 
 

Now, I will say this in terms of just pure right and wrong about my own argument and while this was never specifically talked about, if you had told me last season that he was playing a full MLB season in 2024, I would have said he would be the everyday SS by OD 2025.  He may not be ready to be the everyday SS as quickly as I thought he would. I mean, he may be but I think it’s much more in doubt right now than it was.

It's way off-topic but I'm intrigued by the idea he could play a good CF.  He doesn't look that fast.