Roch: Holliday, Mayo, Kjerstad, Stowers, Norby, and Al Suarez optioned

[Tony-OH]

14 minutes ago, Hallas said:

i don't know how to feel about this, we let Gunnar on the big club out of camp, Adley got hurt in the spring and forced us to send him down to finish his spring, and we kept Holliday down.  I don't see a clear pattern of keeping prospects down, but it's hard to understate the value of the extra year of control, so I'm sure it played a role.

Because of his August/Sept time the year before, the Orioles gained nothing by keeping Gunnar down to start last season.

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, StottyByNature said:

I think Mike Elias should have earned our trust by now.  I have no problem with the decision.  It’s not like they have slow played Holliday in the minors, he’s still awfully young for AAA.

If he’s as good as we think then an extra year is a perfectly reasonable play.  Cowser is going to play a lot so it fits with the notion of not breaking in too many guys at once as well.  
 

Holliday is more important to us at the end of the season than at the start anyway.  If he’s the difference between making the playoffs or not then something has gone horribly wrong this year.

I don't think any human (including Elias) is above criticism. I think it's perfectly okay if some question/don't like this decision.

As far as Holliday helping us toward the end of the season, if he is anything like any of our other top level prospects in recent years (Adley/Grayson/Henderson) it is going to take him a while to acclimate when he arrives. If he arrives later in the season, I don't think it is that realistic to rely on him being a difference maker in October. Last season, Gunnar didn't hit for almost the first 2 months of the season and Grayson had to be sent back down.

[Sanity Check]

Overreactors Hangout.  I only made it through two pages of this thread, and hopefully no one has jumped off of their roof yet.  I would have preferred different outcomes, but I'm not emotional about the decisions like many seem to be.  Is it really worth it to get this agitated about baseball decisions?  It just doesn't seem healthy.

Silver lining - our window of competitiveness just got extended my another year with service time on some key players.  Glass half empty here.....we have enough talent on our team right now that we should win more than we lose, and still be good enough for the playoffs IF the pitching staff holds up and performs..

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

My feeling from the start because of Elias's comments was that they wanted Jackson to get more experuence in AAA. With how well Jackson played in Spring Training, I felt a compelling case had been made for him to make the roster, but the Orioles are thinking long term.

In my opinion, there's 4 main reasons (not in any particular order) why Jackson Holliday has been reassigned...

1. They want to give him more time learning a new position in 2nd Base, and see him as their long term franchise 2nd Basemen with Gunnar playing Shortstop.

2. He hadn't gotten alot of time in AAA last season and they want to give him more AAA experience to face LHP. 

3. They didn't want to use a spot on the 40 man roster if they didn't have to. (Elias doesn't like to expose players to waivers... Or start burning through options if it can be avoided.)

4. Service time. They get another year of service time, which makes makes more sense for the Organization in the long term. Everyone knows Holliday's agent  (Boras) has a reputation for exploiting free agency so there's no evidence to suggest Holliday would sign an extension before his free agency.

5. The Orioles are a defense first organization and they may have felt another player gives them a better defensive alignment to begin 2024.

 

In the outfield I think these moves also indicate that Cowser has probably made the roster. I think Teheran has a good shot now too.

How do you think that #2 takes? How often do you think that he will face Major League type LHP at AAA?

[Bemorewins]

46 minutes ago, Orange said:

I realize this is a hot take, but the real injustice is Wong (or Maton, or Nevin) over Norby. Norby has played very well at AAA and, barring injury, the first month of this season will be his best chance to make a splash on the major league roster. In other words, if there's an infield spot to fill before Holliday and Mayo arrive, then Norby should get that shot. (It's also another bullet point in the explanation for sending those two down, even though we all know the real reason is just service time manipulation.)

Even if Norby started the season at the Major League level and was given say 2B AND he hit well early on, then what?

Holliday and Mayo are definitely coming up at some point and will be given starting spots at based on pedigree/talent. 

IMO the best thing for Norby and the org is that we trade him to a place where he will be given a place to play where things are not so crowded. IMO he should be used as a chip as part of a package at the deadline.

[foxfield]

4 hours ago, Gurgi said:

If feel like Mike Elias promised us a puppy if we were good and did our homework.  Well we did all our homework and did chores around the house and everything.....but instead of getting us that beautiful German Shepard puppy he went and got a damn chihahua mutt mix instead.  And to top it off Elias punched the German Shepard puppy right in the face.  

You can’t have any Jackson Holliday if you don’t eat your meat!  How can any Jackson Holliday if you don’t eat your meat????

[Sanity Check]

50 minutes ago, Orange said:

I realize this is a hot take, but the real injustice is Wong (or Maton, or Nevin) over Norby. Norby has played very well at AAA and, barring injury, the first month of this season will be his best chance to make a splash on the major league roster. In other words, if there's an infield spot to fill before Holliday and Mayo arrive, then Norby should get that shot. (It's also another bullet point in the explanation for sending those two down, even though we all know the real reason is just service time manipulation.)

You are in the minority here for sure, but I agree with you 150%.  Norby is the infield's version of Kyle Stowers.

[Gurgi]

3 minutes ago, foxfield said:

You can’t have any Jackson Holliday if you don’t eat your meat!  How can any Jackson Holliday if you don’t eat your meat????

You yes you.....behind the woodshed.  Stand still laddy.

[Satyr3206]

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

You are in the minority here for sure, but I agree with you 150%.  Norby is the infield's version of Kyle Stowers.

Trade Norby and Stowers for a Pitcher.

[Satyr3206]

16 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Because of his August/Sept time the year before, the Orioles gained nothing by keeping Gunnar down to start last season.

Going to be the same thing with Holliday. More rosterbation.

[baltfan]

I know there is a lot of speculation that this is for service time, but the possible pick I feel like was more than sufficient to overcome that if they really thought Holliday was ready.   

[Billy F-Face3]

1 hour ago, Orange said:

I realize this is a hot take, but the real injustice is Wong (or Maton, or Nevin) over Norby. Norby has played very well at AAA and, barring injury, the first month of this season will be his best chance to make a splash on the major league roster. In other words, if there's an infield spot to fill before Holliday and Mayo arrive, then Norby should get that shot. (It's also another bullet point in the explanation for sending those two down, even though we all know the real reason is just service time manipulation.)

I agree with this take. Although I haven't heard anything official yet about Wong making the team.

Reading Mike Elias's statement, it does make sense to me that one of the reasons they didn't call up guys like Stowers, Kjerstad, Norby, and Holliday is because they don't want them sitting in the bench in MLB. They want them playing everyday. Although I don’t know how they manage that with 2 premier prospects needing to play 2nd base everyday in Norfolk.

One more thing about Norby:  He's not known for his glove which supports my previous statement that the Orioles have a defense first philosophy.

[Billy F-Face3]

24 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

How do you think that #2 takes? How often do you think that he will face Major League type LHP at AAA?

To be honest, decent eft handed pitchers get called up pretty quickly so they will have to be verh deliberate in trying to match him up vs left handers in AAA

 There's just not that many good LHP in the minor leagues because they are so valuable and rare.

[baltfan]

If they trade one of McKenna et al prior to the season starting is there anything to prevent them calling up Holliday?  Perhaps this is a bit of a ploy on the part of the Orioles to get something for one of the extras?  I know that a long shot but just a thought. 

[forphase1]

13 minutes ago, baltfan said:

I know there is a lot of speculation that this is for service time, but the possible pick I feel like was more than sufficient to overcome that if they really thought Holliday was ready.   

I don't think so.   Service time is guaranteed if they keep down long enough.   The pick is a huge gamble.   While interpreters for Japanese megastars may like to gamble,  most GMs don't.   A guaranteed extra year of Holliday is a much safer bet than a chance to win ROY and get the pick.