Jackson Holliday 2024

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

So was Manny.  So was Gunnar.  So were other great players.  They all flashed at that age. 

 

For a guy like JH who has been trained to play baseball his entire life?

 

He looked bad.

Mike Trout was bad at 19.  Yount was bad at 18, 19, 20.  George Brett hit .125 at age 20 in 41 plate appearances.  Brooks Robinson was bad from 18-21.  Mays struggled in his first 30-50 at bats at age 20.  Adrian Beltre wasn't good at 19.  Bench was bad at 19.  Ripken hit .128 at age 20 in '81.  

There are others I'm forgetting.  Yeah, he looked bad.  Not every player that turned out to be an all-time great flashed at that age, that's just not true.  Plenty had a rough start and figured it out.

That's not to say that Holliday will figure it out.  It's not to say that he won't.  But if you're hoisting up examples of 20 year olds that have come up and flashed right away and saying that there's something wrong with Holliday because he didn't...there are just as many examples of other 20 year olds that didn't play well right away.  

[Sports Guy]

22 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

So was Manny.  So was Gunnar.  So were other great players.  They all flashed at that age. 

 

For a guy like JH who has been trained to play baseball his entire life?

 

He looked bad.

Gunnar made his ML debut at age 21. Holliday is ahead of him offensively at age 19 and age 20.

[Tony-OH]

25 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

All this Holliday talk made me think of Greg Jeffries.   Who remembers the Mets minor league SS phenom who tore through A and AA, debuted at 20, had a nice long career?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeffegr01.shtml

 

Similarly built, Jeffries was also a bit defensively challenged. He did end up having a nice career, just not the HoF career some thought when he burned through the minors.

[OnlyOneOriole]

BTW in relation to what I was saying earlier about 'pro' athletes who really are not athletes but kind of specialized robots? Just good at one specific thing?

Watch Reed Shepard throw out the baseball last night for the Yankees/Mets game.  This is a guy who was a great shooter (3 pointer mainly) as a freshman at Kentucky this past year....and yet he could barely throw a baseball.  That is not an athlete.

That is a person who has been trained to play one thing his entire life.   A shooter in Bball.

BTW his mom is......different looking haha. 

[OnlyOneOriole]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Gunnar made his ML debut at age 21. Holliday is ahead of him offensively at age 19 and age 20.

Again, you really need to look at players that have somewhat reached their ceiling at age 20?  Like JH imo....and others like GH who were just starting to blossom at that age. 

[Chromehill]

Gunnar was batting .201 on June 1st of last year.  Lots of fans wanted to send him back to the minors.  Goes on to win ROY and an outstanding chance to be MVP this year.

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Again, you really need to look at players that have somewhat reached their ceiling at age 20?  Like JH imo....and others like GH who were just starting to blossom at that age. 

Saying Holliday has reached his ceiling is a completely absurd and unintelligent position to take.  
 

And you said Gunnar showed at age 20. I’m guessing you never saw him at age 20, so that was just a factually incorrect statement for you to make.

[OnlyOneOriole]

54 minutes ago, Chromehill said:

Gunnar was batting .201 on June 1st of last year.  Lots of fans wanted to send him back to the minors.  Goes on to win ROY and an outstanding chance to be MVP this year.

I look at things maybe differently from others because I I have played high level HS and college sports.  And 2 pro sports. 

I know what I am looking at when it comes to athleticism.  

I am a good evaluator.    From sports to horses to stocks to many things. 

For example there is a reason why I make mid 6 to low 7 figures every year daytrading.  Because evaluating a public company's merits is something I have done since I was a kid.   I love the business world. I used to travel every summer as a kid to Chicago to be a runner for one of the greatest Options traders I have ever known.   A neighbor of ours at Higgins Lake MI. 

 

RIP MG.  https://lifestorytc.com/obituaries/michael-w-groves.138326

[accinfo]

1 hour ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I look at things maybe differently from others because I I have played high level HS and college sports.  And 2 pro sports. 

I know what I am looking at when it comes to athleticism.  

I am a good evaluator.    From sports to horses to stocks to many things. 

For example there is a reason why I make mid 6 to low 7 figures every year daytrading.  Because evaluating a public company's merits is something I have done since I was a kid.   I love the business world. I used to travel every summer as a kid to Chicago to be a runner for one of the greatest Options traders I have ever known.   A neighbor of ours at Higgins Lake MI. 

 

RIP MG.  https://lifestorytc.com/obituaries/michael-w-groves.138326

Well since you are making about a million daytrading you would think you could pony up $24.95 to become a member.  

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 hour ago, accinfo said:

Well since you are making about a million daytrading you would think you could pony up $24.95 to become a member.  

Honestly I had no idea that this was even a pay site. 

Of course I will do that to support it. 

Hang on....

[OnlyOneOriole]

4 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Honestly I had no idea that this was even a pay site. 

Of course I will do that to support it. 

Hang on....

Done.

[yark14]

3 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

BTW in relation to what I was saying earlier about 'pro' athletes who really are not athletes but kind of specialized robots? Just good at one specific thing?

Watch Reed Shepard throw out the baseball last night for the Yankees/Mets game.  This is a guy who was a great shooter (3 pointer mainly) as a freshman at Kentucky this past year....and yet he could barely throw a baseball.  That is not an athlete.

That is a person who has been trained to play one thing his entire life.   A shooter in Bball.

BTW his mom is......different looking haha. 

Are bowlers athletes?

[OnlyOneOriole]

Just now, yark14 said:

Are bowlers athletes?

Not at all haha. I mean kind of, but on the low end of the totem pole.   I comment all of the time that bowlers may be the worst looking group of 'athletic people' and I used that term loosely, that I have ever seen.  I think most bowlers are people who couldn't excel at any other sports.   Everytime I walk into a bowling alley for a league or a tourney I am always struck by how unathletic most players look. 

[Il BuonO]

9 hours ago, SemperFi said:

JH would likely be a plus CF given what we know about him but it will take reps otherwise you're giving up outs and advances.  FWIW-Slotting JH into CF would run somewhat counter intuitive to drafting EBJ and Josenberger (who really only provide value in CF) in the last draft.

If  EBJ develops? Sure. You can always package him or Josenberger.

However, think about Betts, a superior athlete who’s now moved back to the IF where he started after becoming a GG OF in right. He was blocked at 2B by Pedroia when he came up and then they decided he was too good in RF to move back, but he was always capable. The Orioles could do the same with JH if and when it’s apparent. He’s talented enough to play CF and move back to the dirt is necessary.

[Il BuonO]

6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Mike Trout was bad at 19.  Yount was bad at 18, 19, 20.  George Brett hit .125 at age 20 in 41 plate appearances.  Brooks Robinson was bad from 18-21.  Mays struggled in his first 30-50 at bats at age 20.  Adrian Beltre wasn't good at 19.  Bench was bad at 19.  Ripken hit .128 at age 20 in '81.  

There are others I'm forgetting.  Yeah, he looked bad.  Not every player that turned out to be an all-time great flashed at that age, that's just not true.  Plenty had a rough start and figured it out.

That's not to say that Holliday will figure it out.  It's not to say that he won't.  But if you're hoisting up examples of 20 year olds that have come up and flashed right away and saying that there's something wrong with Holliday because he didn't...there are just as many examples of other 20 year olds that didn't play well right away.  

Mantle