Jackson Holliday 2024

[Frobby]

Eric Longenhagen did a very thoughtful write-up on Holliday in his recent review of the Orioles’ farm system.  He noted several areas where Holliday still needs development, but closed with:

“It’s typical for players Holliday’s age to need to make some adjustments and it appears that’s what a hopefully healthy Holliday will spend the rest of 2024 doing. He has all of the scout-y athletic traits that indicate most of where he currently falls short will improve as his body matures. It might take a year longer than Orioles fans want it to, but Holliday is very likely to become a 5-WAR middle infielder who does everything well.”

 

[Hallas]

33 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

He is not a #1 because he doesn’t have that type of consistent command. Will he ever get that? Maybe? Maybe not?

No I don’t want him as a #1 because he is not a number 1 point blank.

Skubal or a talented SP of that ilk solves many problems for us IMO. He gives us a devastating 1-2 punch with Burnes for this season that probably only the Phillies and Mariners (and maybe Dodgers if healthy can match). We would definitely be World Series favorites this year. And he allows us to increase the favorable matchups down the series with Grayson slotting in for a game #3 and only one of Kremer/Suarez having to start in any given series. He also protects us against a Burnes offseason departure. And he gives us some of that leverage in case we want to negotiate with Burnes to attempt to resign him.

 

I don't think Grayson's command is really a lot worse than Skenes' or Burnes.  Maybe marginally, but not a lot.  He gets less out of his stuff IMO because of issues with pitch sequencing and because he seems to have more trouble figuring out how to get people out with the pitches that are working.  That (IMO) is something that is correctable with experience.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Eric Longenhagen did a very thoughtful write-up on Holliday in his recent review of the Orioles’ farm system.  He noted several areas where Holliday still needs development, but closed with:

“It’s typical for players Holliday’s age to need to make some adjustments and it appears that’s what a hopefully healthy Holliday will spend the rest of 2024 doing. He has all of the scout-y athletic traits that indicate most of where he currently falls short will improve as his body matures. It might take a year longer than Orioles fans want it to, but Holliday is very likely to become a 5-WAR middle infielder who does everything well.”

 

Wow, a write up his defense where the sky isn’t falling. 

[sportsfan8703]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Wow, a write up his defense where the sky isn’t falling. 

Good or bad, do we really need 2nd hand write ups about his defense when we actually got to see him up here. I know it’s SSS, but we got to see him. No point in reading second hand accounts. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good or bad, do we really need 2nd hand write ups about his defense when we actually got to see him up here. I know it’s SSS, but we got to see him. No point in reading second hand accounts. 

Huh?  Of course there’s a point. Information is always important and we saw very little of him up here anyway.

[Hallas]

Re: his defense, do we even care that much if he can't stick at SS?  He posted elite statcast numbers in a small sample, and he passed the eye test for me out there.   The position adjustment difference between SS and 2B is 5 runs, so if he is worth more than 5 runs above average at 2nd he's as valuable as an average defender SS.

 

[Bemorewins]

8 hours ago, Hallas said:

 

I don't think Grayson's command is really a lot worse than Skenes' or Burnes.  Maybe marginally, but not a lot.  He gets less out of his stuff IMO because of issues with pitch sequencing and because he seems to have more trouble figuring out how to get people out with the pitches that are working.  That (IMO) is something that is correctable with experience.

There may be something to the pitch sequencing thing. And he probably doesn’t have as electric of the same stuff profile as Skenes?

But he does not have the same consistent command as Burnes. There is a significant difference there.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good or bad, do we really need 2nd hand write ups about his defense when we actually got to see him up here. I know it’s SSS, but we got to see him. No point in reading second hand accounts. 

I care a lot about whatever information I can get.  He’s played a lot more in Norfolk than he did in the majors.  And, he’d played very little 2B when we saw him,  He’s played a good bit more now, though not in the last few weeks due to the sore elbow (which, by the way, makes me nervous).   

[Sports Guy]

33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I care a lot about whatever information I can get.  He’s played a lot more in Norfolk than he did in the majors.  And, he’d played very little 2B when we saw him,  He’s played a good bit more now, though not in the last few weeks due to the sore elbow (which, by the way, makes me nervous).   

Why does it make you nervous?  We have zero info about it.

Or is the lack of info what makes you nervous?

Edited July 19 by Sports Guy

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why does it make you nervous?  We have zero info about it.

Or is the lack of info what makes you nervous?

I think any injury where the guys throwing has been off all year and now he's DHing still is a bit of a concern. It feels like they are nursing something with him. 

It will be interesting now that the all-star break is over (They need to stop taking the minor league all-star break at the same time as the major leagues) to see if he's back on the field at 2B. Hopefully he will be.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I think any injury where the guys throwing has been off all year and now he's DHing still is a bit of a concern. It feels like they are nursing something with him. 

It will be interesting now that the all-star break is over (They need to stop taking the minor league all-star break at the same time as the major leagues) to see if he's back on the field at 2B. Hopefully he will be.

Is it concerning or is it re-assuring?  Maybe the elbow has been bothering him all season and not just when they took him out of the IF?

I said it before and it’s obviously complete speculation on my part but maybe he worked all offseason on arm strengthening activities and it’s just sore and it just carried over.

It’s very possible that he was doing things he had never done before. I mean, it’s acknowledged that the arm is the worst part of his defense, so he may have ignored that for most of baseball life.  
 

It could have also effected his hitting.

Im not going to worry about this at all until we see more info. The Os are extremely cautious with injuries, especially to these young guys. I mean, it sounded like Grayson could have kept pitching but they were extra careful with him.

The idea that he was on the IL for just a week and then they said, F it he can hit, I think is a good sign. Had he been sitting completely for the last month, that would be different.

 

[Tony-OH]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Is it concerning or is it re-assuring?  Maybe the elbow has been bothering him all season and not just when they took him out of the IF?

I said it before and it’s obviously complete speculation on my part but maybe he worked all offseason on arm strengthening activities and it’s just sore and it just carried over.

It’s very possible that he was doing things he had never done before. I mean, it’s acknowledged that the arm is the worst part of his defense, so he may have ignored that for most of baseball life.  
 

It could have also effected his hitting.

Im not going to worry about this at all until we see more info. The Os are extremely cautious with injuries, especially to these young guys. I mean, it sounded like Grayson could have kept pitching but they were extra careful with him.

The idea that he was on the IL for just a week and then they said, F it he can hit, I think is a good sign. Had he been sitting completely for the last month, that would be different.

 

I 100% think his arm has been bothering him all season. Watching him lob throws to first on plays he had a lot of time, lobs that were almost comically Little League like, tells me he was babying his arm. 

Saying that, he didn't have a very strong arm last year either though he does throw well enough and accurately enough on the run to make plays across the middle as a shortstop and to his right as a second baseman. 

Holliday is an extremely hard worker and will maximize his abilities and undoubtedly continue to improve at all aspects of his game. Hopefully when the lineups are posted for tonight's Norfolk game he'll be at 2B.

[RZNJ]

A normal person would be concerned when your #1 prospect has been shut down from throwing for a month and you have very little information on the injury.   Yes, it could turn out to have no long term consequences but we don’t know.   

[banks703]

43 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I care a lot about whatever information I can get.  He’s played a lot more in Norfolk than he did in the majors.  And, he’d played very little 2B when we saw him,  He’s played a good bit more now, though not in the last few weeks due to the sore elbow (which, by the way, makes me nervous).   

I wholeheartedly believe that the elbow issues for him are a result of trying to increase arm strength. The body can only do so much and handle so much. I can sympathize with elbow issues. I dealt with them from my youth up until life forced me to finally give up the dream in my early 20's. Hell, I don't even play slow pitch softball anymore because I get too into it and want to throw out every runner any time I get a flyball with someone on base. I'm not suggesting that this uber all-world talent will carry elbow issues for his career but it is a little concerning that as a 20 year old he's having them in his second full year of pro ball hasn't been in games for a bit. He has the best coaching and medical expertise available to him so I am not overly concerned about it but it's not nothing. Again, no direct knowledge of the situation but I would be surprised if later we learn that they had him doing things to strengthen the arm that he's maybe never done before in his life. If it works and he's healthy beyond this little blip, so be it. I'm good with it but an elbow issue for a 20 year infielder is not nothing. 

 

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why does it make you nervous?  We have zero info about it.

Or is the lack of info what makes you nervous?

Of course it should make us nervous and of course we don't have much information about it. We've had this argument before - the organization is not going to outwardly volunteer negative information about players, especially not prospects who, like it or not, may be considered in trade discussions.

As a fan, I think we'd all prefer for them to just come out and say what caused it, the severity, etc. etc. vs. giving us bits and pieces of it but in terms of risk management and/or overexposing themselves (should JH truly be discussed in trade talks) I understand why they are so tight-lipped about it. As I mentioned above, maybe they had him doing some wild shit in an attempt to gain arm strength and they don't want to reveal their secret sauce or they don't want it to get out that the org injured him. Who knows but I think the lack of info is what probably makes most of us uneasy about it.. at least that's the case for me. 

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I wholeheartedly believe that the elbow issues for him are a result of trying to increase arm strength. The body can only do so much and handle so much. I can sympathize with elbow issues. I dealt with them from my youth up until life forced me to finally give up the dream in my early 20's. Hell, I don't even play slow pitch softball anymore because I get too into it and want to throw out every runner any time I get a flyball with someone on base. I'm not suggesting that this uber all-world talent will carry elbow issues for his career but it is a little concerning that as a 20 year old he's having them in his second full year of pro ball hasn't been in games for a bit. He has the best coaching and medical expertise available to him so I am not overly concerned about it but it's not nothing. Again, no direct knowledge of the situation but I would be surprised if later we learn that they had him doing things to strengthen the arm that he's maybe never done before in his life. If it works and he's healthy beyond this little blip, so be it. I'm good with it but an elbow issue for a 20 year infielder is not nothing. 

 

Of course it should make us nervous and of course we don't have much information about it. We've had this argument before - the organization is not going to outwardly volunteer negative information about players, especially not prospects who, like it or not, may be considered in trade discussions.

As a fan, I think we'd all prefer for them to just come out and say what caused it, the severity, etc. etc. vs. giving us bits and pieces of it but in terms of risk management and/or overexposing themselves (should JH truly be discussed in trade talks) I understand why they are so tight-lipped about it. As I mentioned above, maybe they had him doing some wild shit in an attempt to gain arm strength and they don't want to reveal their secret sauce or they don't want it to get out that the org injured him. Who knows but I think the lack of info is what probably makes most of us uneasy about it.. at least that's the case for me. 

I just can’t get nervous about something that we have so little info on.

Tendinitis is something everyone tends to go through at some point in their lives. You get treatment, you rest it and you move on.

If that’s all it is, no biggie.  If it’s a larger deal than that, I would then be worried but since Elias said before the AS break that he believes Holliday will be out there soon (how he defines soon, who knows), I tend to think it was more of the no biggie variety than something larger.

I just wish we had more info.