Bradish TJ-Season and 2025 over

[dystopia]

Just now, accinfo said:

I agree the pitch counts and innings pitch within a season has done nothing to prevent these injuries.  To me it is due to these guys trying to throw so hard.  One suggestion would be to widen the strike zone and make it easier to pitch without throwing as hard as you can.  Maybe raise the mound.  

Nope. This won’t stop pitchers from trying to maximize their potential to get hitters out. This will just kill offense completely. 
 

The only way this gets reversed is if UCL tears become so prolific that nobody will be willing to pay pitchers any kind of big money anymore. 

[bpilktree]

Springs for Tampa got his surgery early May last year and was back pitching rehab games mid May this season(though he got a back injury and was shut down after 2 starts). That is probably the best case scenario.  Bradish rehabbing but all star break next season with possible late August, September return.  

[LGOrioles]

6 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

I wouldn't give up much for Fedde considering he is 31 and never has been good until this year.  I don't view him as an upgrade over Kremer or Irvin, he'd be a depth type acquisition to me. 

It’s definitely his first good year but he’s been really good. 3.09 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 3.53 xFIP, 3.36 xERA. Kremer had one season with a good ERA but has always had pretty mediocre to bad peripherals. 

[accinfo]

1 minute ago, LGOrioles said:

They still will have a top 3 position player group returning with only one pending FA that has been contributing (Santander). They’ve also gotten next to nothing from CF and 2B this year and have Holliday/Mayo on the horizon.

They also got almost nothing this year from Bradish/Wells/Means and got literally nothing from Bautista, who they will hopefully have back next year. Burnes is obviously huge but losing him should not cause the team to go from a 100+ win pace to sub 90 win pace/missing the playoffs. Elias will have to make some moves but they will have almost every important player on the team returning besides Santander and Burnes (not including Bradish since he will have only pitched 25% of the season) and should have some real solid reinforcements coming in Holliday, Mayo, and Bautista.

Yes this team has one of the best record with not too much from Bradish/Wells/Means.  How good would the record be if all three were all healthy all season?  To say we are a 3rd place team without Burnes assumes Elias does nothing to replace Burnes.  That is not going happen.  Elias goes into this offseason with more resources then he has ever had at his disposal since the new owner.  He wants to win.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 minutes ago, accinfo said:

I agree the pitch counts and innings pitch within a season has done nothing to prevent these injuries.  To me it is due to these guys trying to throw so hard.  One suggestion would be to widen the strike zone and make it easier to pitch without throwing as hard as you can.  Maybe raise the mound.  

They are maxing out every last MPH a pitcher can throw and getting as much spin no matter how much strain is places on a pitcher's arm. The injuries are not going anywhere no matter how much they put pitchers on innings and pitch counts.

Plus pitchers throw too much and too hard at a young age compared to the past before their bodies mature.

Edited June 19 by OsFanSinceThe80s

[Big Mac]

Just now, LGOrioles said:

It’s definitely his first good year but he’s been really good. 3.09 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 3.53 xFIP, 3.36 xERA. Kremer had one season with a good ERA but has always had pretty mediocre to bad peripherals. 

I agree he's been really good this year, I just wouldn't bet much in terms of prospect capital on that continuing.  He had almost 500 ML innings prior to this season proving he can't pitch. 

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, G54377 said:

Yea I get that way of thinking. I just personally think surgery was always going to be necessary here. An now we get basically nothing from Bradish in 2024 OR 2025. I'm not an expert, and I don't know what the injury looked like 6 months ago. But neither does anyone else on here. Simply saying "trust the people that made the decision" is a bit simplistic.

It sure is.

But we don't have and will never get more information so it's still the best way to go.

We know a lot of guys don't try rehabbing their tears.  We know that occasionally manages to avoid or substantially delay surgery.

If they say there is a chance to avoid it, I don't blame the player for trying to avoid it. 

 

[Safelykept]

32 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

No it happening everywhere.   Astros, Rays, Braves.  It is a bit interesting that it seems to be mostly the better teams and a lot of the younger pitchers.  These younger guys also were mostly in the guys coming up that had much stricter pitch count rules in high school and even college teams were starting to limit guys some which was supposed to help with injuries.  I have a theory it not necessarily those pitch count rules but the much longer seasons.  I know around here top guys are pitching almost 9 months a year between high school, summer travel ball then even fall ball.  A lot of players now seem to concentrate on one sport because they need to be seen and more you play the better chance there is.  

No it happening everywhere.   Astros, Rays, Braves, and for my money reason not to overpay at the deadline or in FA. At some point the game will start discounting picture worth based upon attrition rates. Maybe thats what we saw with Montgomery(!year) and Blake Snell(2Years) Many people here want to resign Burnes and who Knows maybe we will, But it would have to be for lesser years. At the end of the day who other than the NYY, LAD can afford to give him 6,7, or 8 years and those teams already have tons of payroll. 

[LGOrioles]

1 minute ago, Big Mac said:

I agree he's been really good this year, I just wouldn't bet much in terms of prospect capital on that continuing.  He had almost 500 ML innings prior to this season proving he can't pitch. 

Yeah not sure how teams will value him because his lack of track record will have some effect on that. It will be interesting to see.

[accinfo]

5 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Nope. This won’t stop pitchers from trying to maximize their potential to get hitters out. This will just kill offense completely. 
 

The only way this gets reversed is if UCL tears become so prolific that nobody will be willing to pay pitchers any kind of big money anymore. 

You are probably correct that it will be very hard to unring the bell for these guys to try to throw as hard as possible.  We saw this year they not offering long term contracts for Montgomery and others.  It will be interesting to see what Burnes gets.  No way he gets 10 years.  I think he will get 3 or 4 years at a very highly yearly value probably north of 40 million each year.  

[bpilktree]

5 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Is being drafted out of HS as a pitcher the only path to being successful at the position?

Depends who you’re asking?  There lot of parents that push kids and think highest level and fastest path the most important.  All you have to do is look at high school kids who get drafted 10th round or later with full rides to good colleges and decide to go play in minors when a few years of college would been better choice because of money they got.  Now with NIL that might change some but that is yet to be determined.  It same with every sport there was 143 players last year that left college early to enter NBA draft.  There only 60 picks to even get drafted and the 143 did not include Seniors or international players so lots of guys were not gonna get drafted but they entered.  

[DirtyBird]

Just now, bpilktree said:

Depends who you’re asking?  There lot of parents that push kids and think highest level and fastest path the most important.  All you have to do is look at high school kids who get drafted 10th round or later with full rides to good colleges and decide to go play in minors when a few years of college would been better choice because of money they got.  Now with NIL that might change some but that is yet to be determined.  It same with every sport there was 143 players last year that left college early to enter NBA draft.  There only 60 picks to even get drafted and the 143 did not include Seniors or international players so lots of guys were not gonna get drafted but they entered.  

There’s my assumption. Mostly dumb parents.

[Safelykept]

3 minutes ago, accinfo said:

You are probably correct that it will be very hard to unring the bell for these guys to try to throw as hard as possible.  We saw this year they not offering long term contracts for Montgomery and others.  It will be interesting to see what Burnes gets.  No way he gets 10 years.  I think he will get 3 or 4 years at a very highly yearly value probably north of 40 million each year.  

I agree too (see above post)

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

Depends who you’re asking?  There lot of parents that push kids and think highest level and fastest path the most important.  All you have to do is look at high school kids who get drafted 10th round or later with full rides to good colleges and decide to go play in minors when a few years of college would been better choice because of money they got.  Now with NIL that might change some but that is yet to be determined.  It same with every sport there was 143 players last year that left college early to enter NBA draft.  There only 60 picks to even get drafted and the 143 did not include Seniors or international players so lots of guys were not gonna get drafted but they entered.  

A couple of things.

Is Baseball giving out a lot full rides?  I think most baseball scholarships are partial.

Players can negotiate money for college if they sign out of HS and it doesn't come out of the team's pool money.

[bpilktree]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

A couple of things.

Is Baseball giving out a lot full rides?  I think most baseball scholarships are partial.

Players can negotiate money for college if they sign out of HS and it doesn't come out of the team's pool money.

Your top guys are getting full rides which are most of the ones getting drafted out of high school.