Holliday for Norby?

[oriolediehard]

The MLB experts and media said Adley was the top draft prospect in 2019, but Witt was really, I wish we drafted him instead.

[Aristotelian]

Yes, I am frustrated with Holliday. Yes, I would love to have had Norby in our lineup for the last month. No, I would not trade him for Norby, who has an inferior minor league track record at four years older.

[theobird]

Not a chance. I know it’s frustrating watching the kid struggle, but I’ll take the long road. Holiday will be a stud, though maybe not this year

[ShoelesJoe]

At age 19 Jackson Holliday hit .338 /.421 /.507 in AA Ball. 

At age 19 Connor Norby hit .194. /.286 /.290 in college (swinging an aluminum bat).

 

[Drifter]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

When did this board get this bad?

This post makes the board bad? It's a simple question that is allowed, and it's a good one.

 

No, I wouldn't. The kid has pop too, and he has the tools. It's up the O's coaches to fine-tune his skills. I'm more worried about him rolling over to pull the ball than his defense.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Drifter said:

This post makes the board bad? It's a simple question that is allowed, and it's a good one.

 

No, I wouldn't. The kid has pop too, and he has the tools. It's up the O's coaches to fine-tune his skills. I'm more worried about him rolling over to pull the ball than his defense.

No, it’s not a good one. It’s the opposite of a good question.

[Tony-OH]

Of course I would not trade Holliday straight up for Norby. 

Saying that, remember when I said I would trade Holliday straight up for Skubel? 

How would this team look with Skubel in the rotation and Norby in this lineup at 2B, even with below average defense there?

I would have been willing to give up some long term value from Holliday for three playoff seasons of value from Skubel was because Skubel is a difference maker in the players as a TOR and this team is in a World Series window.

Now this was before Westburg injury and my calls were before Mateo went down as well. I just felt we had 2B depth but didn't not have TOR or even top 3 starter depth. 

Now the trade for Eflin helped offset that some, but would I have still traded for Skubel for Holliday, yes I would have. 

A rotation of Skubel, Eflin, Burnes and Kremer/Suarez with Grayson in the pen this year sure would have looked pretty good and made me feel a whole lot better about the playoffs. 

Instead we have a scuffling rookie at 2B, Burnes looking a lot more like a 3rd starter than a TOR, Westburg on the IL, and a team that looks like it has little chance come October without a whole lot of guys getting healthy quickly and ready to contribute.

Nobody wanted to trade one of the big-3 if they didn't have to, and I still think Holliday and Mayo are going to end up good major league players and Basallo has a chance to be the best of them all.

But yes, I stand by my assertion that trading Holliday for Skubel (if the Tigers would have even taken that which is by no way certain) would have given the Orioles a lot better opportunity to win a World Series over the next three years.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Drifter said:

This post makes the board bad? It's a simple question that is allowed, and it's a good one.

 

No, I wouldn't. The kid has pop too, and he has the tools. It's up the O's coaches to fine-tune his skills. I'm more worried about him rolling over to pull the ball than his defense.

 It's looking at a very small sample size while commanding everyone to do the same.

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, joelala said:

This is the worst O P I’ve seen on here in quite some time. 

It's actually not that bad if you think about it.  The only thing that separates the two players is hype.  You can't carry your draft pick prestige and prospect ranking onto the playing field.  

Don't get me wrong, we'd be insane not to roll with Holliday.  But... we did deal away Ortiz, and Norby, for one year of Burnes + a guy that we viewed Cole Irvin as a better option to start.  

Holliday criticism is allowed and warranted.  Is he too good to go oppo field?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

It's actually not that bad if you think about it.  The only thing that separates the two players is hype.  You can't carry your draft pick prestige and prospect ranking onto the playing field.  

Don't get me wrong, we'd be insane not to roll with Holliday.  But... we did deal away Ortiz, and Norby, for one year of Burnes + a guy that we viewed Cole Irvin as a better option to start.  

Holliday criticism is allowed and warranted.  Is he too good to go oppo field?

That's just not true.  The difference in age alone is huge.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's just not true.  The difference in age alone is huge.

Yea..age and talent. 2 minor things.  We should definitely gloss over the idea that Norby has no defensive position, had shaky batted ball results in the minors and is “old”. But hey, he’s on a few week heater for the Marlins, so that’s what matters.

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

That's just not true.  The difference in age alone is huge.

Like you always elude too, what if we don't want all those hypothetical years of control with Holliday?  

I'll take Holliday, but Norby is performing now.  Why wouldn't an O's fan be envious of the short term results?  We all want to win.  Again, Holliday is not above criticism.  

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea..age and talent. 2 minor things.  We should definitely gloss over the idea that Norby has no defensive position, had shaky batted ball results in the minors and is “old”. But hey, he’s on a few week heater for the Marlins, so that’s what matters.

Norby has shown a stronger arm than Holliday.  Also, Holliday isn't blowing anyone away with his range either.  I'd take Holliday all day.  Obviously.  But that dude is far from perfect.  Homeboy probably needs to start making more contact and using the whole field.  

Edited Thursday at 14:54 by sportsfan8703

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

Like you always elude too, what if we don't want all those hypothetical years of control with Holliday?  

I'll take Holliday, but Norby is performing now.  Why wouldn't an O's fan be envious of the short term results?  We all want to win.  Again, Holliday is not above criticism.  

I'm not talking about decline years, I'm talking about players that make it to the majors at 20 generally have superior careers to guys that debut at 24.

[sportsfan8703]

54 minutes ago, ShoelesJoe said:

At age 19 Jackson Holliday hit .338 /.421 /.507 in AA Ball. 

At age 19 Connor Norby hit .194. /.286 /.290 in college (swinging an aluminum bat).

 

I just don't see why age matters.  It's not like Norby is going to be 40 when his 6 years of control are over.  You could actually argue that a player's age 23-29 seasons are more valuable than age 20-26.  

Do we get bonus points for Holliday being only 20?  Where does that show up in the box score?  

Edited Thursday at 15:10 by sportsfan8703