Todays lineup: No Markakis Again

[Tony-OH]

I don't think not putting him out there 5 times a week is going to mess with his head. He has a good head on his shoulders and he isnt the type that is going to start crying and getting mental because he isnt playing every single game. A big part of the learning process comes from the dugout, watching and learning pitchers, pitches they throw in certain counts, etc.. Just by watching Tejada how he handles himself throughout a game is a learning experience in itself. Perlozzo has done a great job so far, and I see nothing wrong with sticking with a hot lineup. You have to remember how many guys we have who need at-bats, if they do good, patterson in particular you have some nice trade bait. Markakis is the future, these other guys are the present, and thats it, Myself and I assume Flanny would like to see the present depart with some pieces coming in return.

In conclusion, Markakis will get his at-bats, 4 or 5 days a week, without a doubt, its a young season, have patience

Well we'll have to agree to disagree. Markakis is part of the now and the future, that's why he made the team. It's not like we're talking about some Rule 5 guy here.

Markakis just got to sit and watch two games in which the Orioles scored 27 runs against sub par pitching. This was done while Jeff Conine and Kevin Millar batted 20 times between them.

Nick Markakis is not some 27-year old guy the O's brought up to compete for playing time, he's the best hitting prospect that has come up through the Orioles system since Cal Ripken. He should be an everyday outfielder on this club with occasional days off against tough lefties. He should know that his name is going to be in the lineup pretty much everyday. It's almost criminal for him to sit two straight days against mediocre right-handed starting pitching. It's even more criminal not to give him a few at bats in blow outs if you didn't start him.

I'm happy with the O's start this year, and overall I'm not against Perlozzo, but his reluctance to throw Markakis in there day in and day out while acting like he's just another piece like Conine, Patterson, and (Matos and Newhan before injuries) should be alarming to anyone who can see past a fast start by the ballclub.

[BillySmith]

I think the FO has created a situation where they have made Conine and Millar prominent guys on this team. For that to carry over to the rest of the well-being of the team, those guys need to be contributors, not just token veterans here to put guys in their places.

That means Perlozzo has to keep them involved, and since Conine is off to such a slow start, he's got to be in there to get his game going a little bit.

The real question is whether Markakis suffers from this approach. I don't think he does. He's learning a ton and performing very well.

[Tony-OH]

I think the FO has created a situation where they have made Conine and Millar prominent guys on this team. For that to carry over to the rest of the well-being of the team, those guys need to be contributors, not just token veterans here to put guys in their places.

That means Perlozzo has to keep them involved, and since Conine is off to such a slow start, he's got to be in there to get his game going a little bit.

The real question is whether Markakis suffers from this approach. I don't think he does. He's learning a ton and performing very well.

Ok, I have to ask you even though I've read this a ton of times in this debate. Please tell me how Markakis learns from watching on the bench? How does he get better? How does he learn to hit major league pitching consistently when he's not playing consistently? Tell me how he learns from our veterans? Batting practice? Osmosis?

Tell me how does he learn not to press in at bats because he's knows he's going to be in the lineup tomorrow even after a bad day when that's not happening? Tell me how it's better for this organization now and in the future that Jeff Conine and Kevin Millar just received 20 plate appearances while Nick Markakis sat (almost all against right-handed pitching)?

Since stiffing him on opening day, Perlozzo has Hargroved the rookie. If he wants Conine to get at bats, take them from Millar, not Markakis. Maybe you veteran supporters ought to look at Conine's and Millar's (outside of Fenway) OPS over the last year and tell me why any manager would be giving at bats to them over the best prospect to come out of the Orioles system in 20 years?

[hoosiers]

Nick Markakis is not some 27-year old guy the O's brought up to compete for playing time, he's the best hitting prospect that has come up through the Orioles system since Cal Ripken. .... It's even more criminal not to give him a few at bats in blow outs if you didn't start him.

I'm happy with the O's start this year, and overall I'm not against Perlozzo, but his reluctance to throw Markakis in there day in and day out while acting like he's just another piece like Conine, Patterson, and (Matos and Newhan before injuries) should be alarming to anyone who can see past a fast start by the ballclub.

I disagree, Tony. I do not see how Markakis' status as our best hitting prospect since Cal warrants preferential at-bats.

Perlozzo is playing to win and he's playing the players he believes give us the best chance to win. The fact is that Perlozzo believes the team has a better chance of winning with Conine than NM - with pretty good results so far (despite Niner's actual contribution or lack thereof). I do not see how anyone could argue that Markakis gave us a better chance to win than Newhan until the injury. And I'm beginning to believe CPat should be in CF before NM.

It appears that Perlozzo is only going to play NM ahead of Millar, Conine and others if NM excels offensively - and that has not happened so far. Perlozzo could have played NM today against, essentially, a minor league pitcher, but Perlozzo believed either Niner gave us the best chance to win or getting at-bats to Niner to get him going is more important than playing NM.

As it is, NM's on pace for over 400 at-bats so I think Perlozzo is working him in the rotation - which I'm comfortable with though I'd prefer NM be in Bowie for now.

[Sports Guy]

I disagree, Tony. I do not see how Markakis' status as our best hitting prospect since Cal warrants preferential at-bats.

Perlozzo is playing to win and he's playing the players he believes give us the best chance to win. The fact is that Perlozzo believes the team has a better chance of winning with Conine than NM - with pretty good results so far (despite Niner's actual contribution or lack thereof). I do not see how anyone could argue that Markakis gave us a better chance to win than Newhan until the injury. And I'm beginning to believe CPat should be in CF before NM.

It appears that Perlozzo is only going to play NM ahead of Millar, Conine and others if NM excels offensively - and that has not happened so far. Perlozzo could have played NM today against, essentially, a minor league pitcher, but Perlozzo believed either Niner gave us the best chance to win or getting at-bats to Niner to get him going is more important than playing NM.

As it is, NM's on pace for over 400 at-bats so I think Perlozzo is working him in the rotation - which I'm comfortable with though I'd prefer NM be in Bowie for now.

Markakis needs to play everyday simply because he needs to learn.

We are not talking about some kid who had 1000 ab's in the minors and can be eased in.

He needs to play everyday.

400-450 ab's is not acceptable. That is only like 110 starts. That is wrong.

Conine is awful and should not be in the OF anyway.

[Tony-OH]

I disagree, Tony. I do not see how Markakis' status as our best hitting prospect since Cal warrants preferential at-bats.

Perlozzo is playing to win and he's playing the players he believes give us the best chance to win. The fact is that Perlozzo believes the team has a better chance of winning with Conine than NM - with pretty good results so far (despite Niner's actual contribution or lack thereof). I do not see how anyone could argue that Markakis gave us a better chance to win than Newhan until the injury. And I'm beginning to believe CPat should be in CF before NM.

It appears that Perlozzo is only going to play NM ahead of Millar, Conine and others if NM excels offensively - and that has not happened so far. Perlozzo could have played NM today against, essentially, a minor league pitcher, but Perlozzo believed either Niner gave us the best chance to win or getting at-bats to Niner to get him going is more important than playing NM.

As it is, NM's on pace for over 400 at-bats so I think Perlozzo is working him in the rotation - which I'm comfortable with though I'd prefer NM be in Bowie for now.

All I can say is wow! I couldn't disagree more with you if you tried. I've said my peace on this. You disagree and believe Conine is better for this club and that our rookie doesn't deserve to play over a 40-year singles hitter.

BTW, if what you were saying was true of Perlozzo, and even I don't think he actually thinks his ballclub is better with Conine over Markakis, they should send Markakis to the minors where he will get 520 at bats this year.

I'm just glad you are no where near being charge of the Orioles.

[mweb]

I disagree, Tony. I do not see how Markakis' status as our best hitting prospect since Cal warrants preferential at-bats.

Perlozzo is playing to win and he's playing the players he believes give us the best chance to win. The fact is that Perlozzo believes the team has a better chance of winning with Conine than NM - with pretty good results so far (despite Niner's actual contribution or lack thereof). I do not see how anyone could argue that Markakis gave us a better chance to win than Newhan until the injury. And I'm beginning to believe CPat should be in CF before NM.

It appears that Perlozzo is only going to play NM ahead of Millar, Conine and others if NM excels offensively - and that has not happened so far. Perlozzo could have played NM today against, essentially, a minor league pitcher, but Perlozzo believed either Niner gave us the best chance to win or getting at-bats to Niner to get him going is more important than playing NM.

As it is, NM's on pace for over 400 at-bats so I think Perlozzo is working him in the rotation - which I'm comfortable with though I'd prefer NM be in Bowie for now.

Fine, if Sam P prefers all those other guys over Nick, then send Markakis down to the minors.

[BillySmith]

Well, I don't agree with you Hoosiers, with all due respect. I think Perlozzo is trying to keep Conine and Millar vital parts of the team, and that Nick is paying the price right now. I believe as the season moves along, NM will be playing a ton, not like we are seeing.

Tony, I think Markakis is learning, simply by being there and being around guys like Tejada and Conine. I just don't feel like he's regressing from this. But if your question is whether he would be learning faster by playing, I probably have to agree with you.

I'm willing to sacrifice him a little to keep Conine and Millar in the mix and contributing and being leaders. If this were to continue, however, it's cause for concern.

If Perlozzo Hargrove's Markakis, he should be severely criticized.

[Tony-OH]

Well, I don't agree with you Hoosiers, with all due respect. I think Perlozzo is trying to keep Conine and Millar vital parts of the team, and that Nick is paying the price right now. I believe as the season moves along, NM will be playing a ton, not like we are seeing.

Tony, I think Markakis is learning, simply by being there and being around guys like Tejada and Conine. I just don't feel like he's regressing from this. But if your question is whether he would be learning faster by playing, I probably have to agree with you.

I'm willing to sacrifice him a little to keep Conine and Millar in the mix and contributing and being leaders. If this were to continue, however, it's cause for concern.

If Perlozzo Hargrove's Markakis, he should be severely criticized.

Fair enough Billy....

[olehippi]

All I can say is wow! I couldn't disagree more with you if you tried. I've said my peace on this. You disagree and believe Conine is better for this club and that our rookie doesn't deserve to play over a 40-year singles hitter.

BTW, if what you were saying was true of Perlozzo, and even I don't think he actually thinks his ballclub is better with Conine over Markakis, they should send Markakis to the minors where he will get 520 at bats this year.

I'm just glad you are no where near being charge of the Orioles.

In the whatever its worth department, I don't see how you can say Markakis isn't getting his AB's...unless you don't want Conine on the field at all.

Including today's game:

AB

Gibbons 65

Conine 42

Markakis 41

Newhan 34 (on DL)

Matos 29 (on DL)

Patterson 24

Looks like he's getting his swings to me.

[Frobby]

I think you all know how I feel about Markakis -- see my tag line below. But I'm not going to sweat it if Sammy sits him 2 days in a row. He's been in most of the games. If he was buried on the bench day after day, being used the way Newhan was last year, then would be concerned. But as long as he's playing more than half the time, I'm not going to second-guess every daily decision Perlozzo makes.

[Sports Guy]

In the whatever its worth department, I don't see how you can say Markakis isn't getting his AB's...unless you don't want Conine on the field at all.

Including today's game:

AB

Gibbons 65

Conine 42

Markakis 41

Newhan 34 (on DL)

Matos 29 (on DL)

Patterson 24

Looks like he's getting his swings to me.

I am sorry but this argument is worthless to me. If anything, it makes things worse.

Great! Markakis barely has more ab's than a super UTI guy and 2 average OFers and less than Conine.

The disparity should be greater.

Just because he is playing more than half the OF does not mean he is playign enough.

[olehippi]

I am sorry but this argument is worthless to me. If anything, it makes things worse.

Great! Markakis barely has more ab's than a super UTI guy and 2 average OFers and less than Conine.

The disparity should be greater.

Just because he is playing more than half the OF does not mean he is playign enough.

I don't see how you can say it's worthless. What it shows is that Markakis is getting considerable playing time....especially when you consider that Matos/Patterson were supposed to be our starting CF'ers. I just don't understand why everyone gets in an uproar when Markakis sits for two consecutive days and is used as a defensive replacement late in the game. Unless he falls flat on his face, he'll get 400+ AB's this year.

[Sports Guy]

I don't see how you can say it's worthless. What it shows is that Markakis is getting considerable playing time....especially when you consider that Matos/Patterson were supposed to be our starting CF'ers. I just don't understand why everyone gets in an uproar when Markakis sits for two consecutive days and is used as a defensive replacement late in the game. Unless he falls flat on his face, he'll get 400+ AB's this year.

Gibbons is getting considerable PT.

Markakis is getting decent PT.

400 ab's is no big deal.

That is about 100-110 starts. What is that? That means he sits 1/3 of the time. Do you think that is smart for a guy with as little experience as he has?

I don't. I want him to get 500+ ab's.

[bgfield]

I just think fans of this organization feel they have waited long enough for a potential superstar and want to see this one play every day. Some people seem to be acting like Sam said he'll be riding the pine for the rest of April.

Fact is, this club DOES want to win. We can't dedicate this whole season to developing Markakis. And I think people are turning a blind eye to the fact that, quite frankly, Markakis has NOT been very good thus far. Granted, neither have Patterson or Conine, but they also haven't gotten as many opportunities as Markakis. AND, now that they are, both are starting to produce.

Just look at his numbers. Since opening day, he's walked once. He's also struck out EIGHT times. That's twice as many as Jay Gibbons, someone who's been criticized around here for his lack of plate discipline. For a guy who supposedly has plate discipline beyond his years, I'm not seeing it. Add to that that he's shown us that at best he's an average defender. Now I'll admit, I know his main position in the minors was right field and he hasn't gotten many opportunities there, so it might just be a learning experience for him in center/left.

I'm not trying to say Markakis is a bust or that he'll never live up to the hype. At this point in time, he hasn't been outstanding, and Perlozzo does want to win games. If he continues to bench Markakis, then yes, send him back down to the minors. But two consecutive days off for him are not at all a cause for concern.