Wait Till Next Year

[JR Oriole]

9 minutes ago, Grt 2BA FL Gator said:

I think the playoffs not being attended angle is overplayed a bit. Last year we had Sat/Sun games in the ALDS. This year it was Tues/Wed afternoon games.

I saw empty seats in Houston as well. 

Maybe their fans were spoiled by their 62 victories in playoff games, 4 pennants, and 2 world series championships over the last 10 years to the point that filling the seats for these games wasn't all that important.

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

All I can say is this, I was born and raised in this community. Left for a while but moved back and have lived here for over a decade.

I know that this community will not be engaged/enthusiastic/excited about running things back given how the last two seasons have ended. Look at how Ravens fans reacted to their team losing in the AFC title game. 

Good luck with trying to increase season ticket sales and you don’t make changes, bring in some signings to excite the fan base for next year.

Did you notice the almost apathy that set in around town regarding this team as compared to the buzz at the beginning of the season when we brought in Burnes and had a new owner. The luster/honeymoon is now over. The org is going to have to do something to reignite that fire/excitement given how the last two seasons ended.

I mean what brings the buzz back is winning.

I do think this offseason needs to be different, and we have needs to address.

I’ll be sharing in the apathy if we make no meaningful moves in the offseason. I think it’s a reasonable expectation that Rubenstein will open the wallet a bit, hopefully for a starting pitcher. And then maybe we can trade for a veteran right handed bat.

You run it back with those additions and win some games, fans will be fine.

Now do we change managers now? An argument could be made to get ahead on that. But I’m not sure that makes the difference yet. I’m willing to wait to see how next year goes before deciding if a new voice is needed. But 0-5 isn’t a good look. 

[MDtransplant757]

I think if you're the orioles, you need to sit and figure out what you want to do. I would bring back Burnes, or at least try to. If you can't keep Burnes, which is looking to be a real possibility, do you trade for another TOR starter with the prospect pool we have or try the Free Agent route? QO Santander, but do you trust Kjerstad or stand outside of Santander's house with a boombox to woo him back? The FA market for outfield sucks this year. What are we going to do with the infield? Do you make trades to see what you can do to improve the roster in the next 2 to 3 years, because the infield has a glut of prospects. How patient are you with letting Basallo develop on the MLB roster if a spot finds itself open, if you want to field offers on Mountcastle. Where do Holliday and Mayo fit into next year's team, or do you try to sell high on Urias? 

[Allan Bryant]

5 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

It would be foolish to discount Burnes value to this team. He needs to be brought back unless the cost becomes absurd.

Yes it would be foolish if we let him walk . He done great job as our # 1 starter . In game # 1 , he made to 8th innings and gave up one run, he done his job.  We need spend whatever it takes UNLESS his demands are  too outrageous 

[webbrick2010]

57 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

From a previous post I made on the 2025 payroll with minor adjustments. Here's my strategy:

I'm bringing back:

• Offense/Defense
  • C - Adley
  • SS - Gunnar
  • 3B - Westburg
  • 2B - Holliday
  • 1B - Mountcastle
  • DH - Kjerstad
  • LF - Cowser
  • CF - Cowser/Mullins
  • RF - ?
  • Backup OF - ?
  • Backup C - ?
  • Utility - Urias
• Starting Pitchers
  • SP1: Eflin
  • SP2: Grayson
  • SP3: Acquire somebody
  • SP4: Kremer
  • SP5: Suarez
• Relievers
  • Closer: Felix
  • Setup: Cano
  • Late Relief: Webb
  • Late Relief: Coulombe
  • Late Relief: Perez
  • Middle/Long Relief: Akin
  • Reliever: ?
  • Reliever: ?
• Depth
  • SP: Povich, McDermott, Rogers
  • RP: McDermott

I'm bringing back, but not giving a spot to:

• Mayo
• Rogers
• Mateo - had surgery at the end of August, could he be back in the middle of the season next year? Sure. Think the money is low enough to keep him as an option, especially since his legs nor his throwing arm were injured. So he'll start the season on the IL and not clog a roster spot.

Guys I'm giving a QO offer to:

• Burnes
• Santander - I really go back and forth with Santander. He's not great in the outfield. His average and OBP is a liability. But his power is prolific. Does that age well? I don't think so. I'd extend the QO and move on.

I'm not bringing back:

• Dominguez - I could be convinced to keep him if we're desperate
• Soto - was a poor acquisition not just because of the talent given up, but because he was always a situational guy with control issues
• O'Hearn - $8m for a guy that really shouldn't be in the field and can only hit righties is a lot of loot
• Santander - Give a QO, move on
• Eloy - Duh

This means we need to acquire the following:

• Starting Pitcher(s)
  • The O's can't go into next season giving Povich a spot and they definitely can not give a spot to Rogers. Rogers needs to be a deep depth arm until he showcases an increase in velocity and/or incredible promise that he can be serviceable and not a WHIP disaster who can barely go 5.
  • Targets: Snell, Burnes, Fried, Wacha, Severino, Morton, etc. 
• Reliever(s)
  • No more Phillies castoffs. No more waiver wire, dumpster diving for the entire bullpen. No more washed up vets. 
  • Targets: David Robertson, Tommy Kahnle, Blake Treinen, Andrew Kittredge, Tanner Scott, etc.
• Position Player(s)
  • Backup C (give more time to the backup if a better hitter so Adley can be fresh throughout year)
    • Targets: Elias Diaz, Travis d'Arnaud (although I reckon the Braves pickup his option), Jacob Stallings. I guess if they're desperate they can stick with Blake Hunt (in the minors)
  • Corner OF
    • We could always acquire a bat first OF and then put Kjerstad in the OF.
    • Targets: Tyler O'Neill, Jurickson Profar, Joc Pederson, etc.
  • Backup OF
    • Could be Mullins if they, say, call up Beavers and sign another OF, otherwise these are a dime a dozen out there. Just get somebody that can platoon since it's a heavy LHH OF right now.
  • 1B
    • For the Mountcastle haters, yeah, I get it. But he's still only 27, plus defense, and he can hit a little. Think the main issue is Waltimore for him. Like Mancini, I think it got in his head. I could be convinced to get a 1B off the FA market, but it's really lackluster. Only premium guy is Alonso. The others are older in Goldschmidt (37) and Walker (33). And would Walker still have the same issues at Mountcastle w/ Waltimore?

Rubenstein better pony up. Will definitely hold him to task if they don't sign at least a Tier 2 starting pitcher and an established hitter. 

Really our SP2 is a guy that has averaged 120 IP the last two years?

Lat injuries are a serious career threatening injury for a pitcher

I believe Grayson's future is in the bullpen, he has shown for two consecutive years that his lat cannot holdup for a full season. It is not going to improve with age and multiple injuries

[bpilktree67]

10 hours ago, Grt 2BA FL Gator said:

I think it’s way too early to know if the results will be the same. I will say, I want to go full youth movement. No more log jams. Let these guys sink or swim and grow together:

CF Mullins 

3B Westburg

C Adley (healthy )

SS Gunnar

LF Cowser

DH O’hearn

RF Kjerstad

2B Holliday

1B Mayo

 

I actually think our bullpen could be quite good and I think we definitely need to sign a top line starter. 

This is my thought, the people that think there is gonna be this huge overhaul with the roster are going to be disappointed.  The big question marks are what happens with Mountcastle, O'Hearn, and Santander the rest of the roster is pretty set imo.  You then have to decide if Urias or Mateo is more valuable as the back up infielder and who is a right handed hitter off the bench that can also play the outfield.  I think Mayo takes over for Mountcastle or O'Hearn who i trade for a reliever that has some options or a prospect.  Santander gets replaced by Kjerstad.  The one difference I would make in your lineup is I move O'Hearn as well because you can't have Gunnar, Cowser, O'Hearn Kjerstad and Holliday all hitting together.  I would either keep Mounty or upgrade 1st base with some one like Christian Walker 3 years 45 million type deal.  

[Bahama O's Fan]

1 hour ago, Grt 2BA FL Gator said:

I agree with a lot of this. I’ve been filling my lineups with what we have, but I think this team lacks a position player leader that will give professional ABs and that’s “been there”. I do think that could be helpful come playoffs.

I’m also coming around on O’Hearn and Mountcastle coming back and platooning, seeing what they can give you. There’s space for them and our position player talent. 

They needed it last year, but the O's chose not to fill it. 

[Bemorewins]

22 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

This is my thought, the people that think there is gonna be this huge overhaul with the roster are going to be disappointed.  The big question marks are what happens with Mountcastle, O'Hearn, and Santander the rest of the roster is pretty set imo.  You then have to decide if Urias or Mateo is more valuable as the back up infielder and who is a right handed hitter off the bench that can also play the outfield.  I think Mayo takes over for Mountcastle or O'Hearn who i trade for a reliever that has some options or a prospect.  Santander gets replaced by Kjerstad.  The one difference I would make in your lineup is I move O'Hearn as well because you can't have Gunnar, Cowser, O'Hearn Kjerstad and Holliday all hitting together.  I would either keep Mounty or upgrade 1st base with some one like Christian Walker 3 years 45 million type deal.  

We don’t need a huge roster overhaul. What we need is to add the necessary talent to what we already have. We need:

1) A TOR starter/or resign Burnes

2) A good RHH bat or two (who hits LHP) to help provide balance to our lineup.

3) A bullpen piece or two to help anchor the bullpen in front of Bautista (Cano and Perez are not those guys - not enough swing and miss stuff there). 

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

This whole change the hitting philosophy is such bs.

The Orioles were one of the highest scoring teams in the league. They had excellent team wide statcast numbers. They were 7th in BA, 4th in runs scored, 11th in OBP, 3rd in slugging, 5th in wOBA and 3rd in wRC+.
 

Would you rather have the Royals offense? The Royals were 20th in wRC+, 19th in OBP, 10th in BA, 12th in slugging, 13th in runs scored.

KC was the third hardest team to strikeout and while that was better than the Os, the Os were 13th best in that category.

So which offense would you rather have? 
 

Now, do the Os need to teach their hitters to tweak their approach with 2 strikes? Sure. Do they need to do a better job of situational hitting?  Absolutely. But to say they need totally need to change their philosophy is absurd.

I’m in agreement with the last few sentences. Perhaps I should have clarified what I mean. I was hoping the swing for the fence low approach left with the old regime. 

[bpilktree67]

This is the lineup and moves i would like to see.

2B Holliday

3B Westburg

SS Henderson

1B/DH  Christian Walker has decent splits both vs righties and lefties  3 years 45 million or 2 years 35 million type deal  

C Adley

LF Cowser

RF Kjerstad

DH/1B Mayo

CF Mullins

Bench

C- someone that is good defensive catcher with framing and decent arm that can hold down the spot until Basillo is ready then his bat forces his way on team.  

INF Mateo love the speed and intensity with him on the roster, losing him got overlooked by many when he got hurt as he just brings something that seemed to be missing 2nd half of the year

INF Urias  he gives you a solid glove and good bat on the cheap end.

OF RH bat type guy that can play vs lefties not an Austin Slater type guy as someone with more power and gives Mullins, Cowser, and Kjerstad days off.  I love Tyler O'Neil but he probably looking for full time gig.  Rob Resnyder is another option but Red Sox most likely pick up his option.  

Rotation

SP Eflin

Sp  FA starter or outside the box move trade Ryan Mountcastle for Jordan Montgomery (Diamondbacks will need a replacement for Walker and Mounty is a cheaper option then free agency and they clearly are looking to get rid of Montgomery's contract based on owners comments) 

Sp Rodriguez

SP Kremer

Sp Povich/ Suarez

I would love to get Burnes back but not for 6+ years i think someone will offer him.  If you can get him for 5 years at around 175 i would do that.  

Bullpen

Cl Batusita

RHP Cano

RHP Suarez/ LHP Povich  

LHP Coulombe 

LHP Aiken 

Then you have  a bunch of guys that are pretty similar so it depends on who you can move in a trade and give you the best deal as some are more expensive but probably better so will a team pay for their cost.

RHP Webb

RHP Dominguez

LHP Soto

LHP Perez 

I would keep two of these four and then add a bullpen guy that has some options 

 

 

[Roll Tide]

53 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

Yes it would be foolish if we let him walk . He done great job as our # 1 starter . In game # 1 , he made to 8th innings and gave up one run, he done his job.  We need spend whatever it takes UNLESS his demands are  too outrageous 

I think he gets something around $30 million per for 6+ years. We should be in for that kind of commitment.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m in agreement with the last few sentences. Perhaps I should have clarified what I mean. I was hoping the swing for the fence low approach left with the old regime. 

The old regime?  Elias has been here for a while. It’s the same approach that has seen them have a top offense for 2 years in a row.

What old regime are you talking about?

[Allan Bryant]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I think he gets something around $30 million per for 6+ years. We should be in for that kind of commitment.

If we can keep him for those terms , SIGN HIM 

[LookitsPuck]

1 hour ago, webbrick2010 said:

Really our SP2 is a guy that has averaged 120 IP the last two years?

Lat injuries are a serious career threatening injury for a pitcher

I believe Grayson's future is in the bullpen, he has shown for two consecutive years that his lat cannot holdup for a full season. It is not going to improve with age and multiple injuries

Right. I don't disagree, which is why I say they need to pickup somebody. But I don't think it's a career ending injury. Maybe eventually, but he'll have a full offseason. 

I actually wouldn't be opposed to them picking up another back of the rotation arm and have an open competition for the 5th spot between that individual, Suarez, Povich, McDermott, and Rogers. Then you have optionality in the event of an injury.

And while I don't anticipate Bradish being back in 2025, there's a possibility he's back in the back half of it. 

 

[Aristotelian]

18 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

This is the lineup and moves i would like to see.

2B Holliday

3B Westburg

SS Henderson

1B/DH  Christian Walker has decent splits both vs righties and lefties  3 years 45 million or 2 years 35 million type deal  

C Adley

LF Cowser

RF Kjerstad

DH/1B Mayo

CF Mullins

Bench

C- someone that is good defensive catcher with framing and decent arm that can hold down the spot until Basillo is ready then his bat forces his way on team.  

INF Mateo love the speed and intensity with him on the roster, losing him got overlooked by many when he got hurt as he just brings something that seemed to be missing 2nd half of the year

INF Urias  he gives you a solid glove and good bat on the cheap end.

OF RH bat type guy that can play vs lefties not an Austin Slater type guy as someone with more power and gives Mullins, Cowser, and Kjerstad days off.  I love Tyler O'Neil but he probably looking for full time gig.  Rob Resnyder is another option but Red Sox most likely pick up his option.  

Rotation

SP Eflin

Sp  FA starter or outside the box move trade Ryan Mountcastle for Jordan Montgomery (Diamondbacks will need a replacement for Walker and Mounty is a cheaper option then free agency and they clearly are looking to get rid of Montgomery's contract based on owners comments) 

Sp Rodriguez

SP Kremer

Sp Povich/ Suarez

I would love to get Burnes back but not for 6+ years i think someone will offer him.  If you can get him for 5 years at around 175 i would do that.  

Bullpen

Cl Batusita

RHP Cano

RHP Suarez/ LHP Povich  

LHP Coulombe 

LHP Aiken 

Then you have  a bunch of guys that are pretty similar so it depends on who you can move in a trade and give you the best deal as some are more expensive but probably better so will a team pay for their cost.

RHP Webb

RHP Dominguez

LHP Soto

LHP Perez 

I would keep two of these four and then add a bullpen guy that has some options 

 

 

I posted about Walker for your exact reason. Especially losing Santander we need guys who are matchup proof. They don't need to be switch hitters but they need to be able to put up competitive ABs regardless of matchup. Our team is basically built around LH hitting but these guys get exposed vs elite LHP's, even Gunnar (Mullins, Cowser, O'Hearn, Holliday). Kjerstad hit lefties well in the minors but we can't depend on that holding up. As an extra bonus, Walker is tied for #8 in MLB in sac flys! Walker seems like a guy who would be a great fit without too much $$. 

Another thought I have, is there a RHB on the market who can be a productive hitter without trying to hit home runs over the wall? A guy who doesn't have a lot of power but can spray the ball everywhere, draw walks, and won't K, like a RH version of Arraez? Not sure who that would be. 

I'm tempted to keep O'Hearn. He has I believe the lowest K rate of our starters along with a decent enough BB rate. We need that. 

I think it's time for Perez to go. He is pretty cheap but he just isn't that good and that would clear a spot for younger guys and guys with options to keep the rest of the bullpen fresh, which has always been an issue under Hyde.