Orioles' 40 Man Roster 2009/2010 OffSeason Discussion

[Crazysilver03]

Not to steal Crazysilver03's thunder, I thought I'd update his expected 40-man roster heading into the Rule 5 Draft on 12/10 (I think) since a few players have changed. IMO it will look like this:

AM being AM, we obviously will be going into the Rule 5 Draft with a full 40 players protected. It looks to me like the final four spots will be selected from among Castillo, Waters, Lambert, Liz, Hill and Beato. Anybody else?

Beato will not be protected. He shouldn't even be in the discussion.

I doubt MacPhail goes to the Rule 5 draft with a full 40 man roster. He dumped Quiroz and Deza the day before the draft last year to give himself spots on the roster.

I could see Castillo, Lambert, and Hill lasting on the 40 man roster, though they could all be gotten rid of without consequence.

[Mike B]

Pie really doesn't much value unless he gets a lot of playing time down the stretch and performs very well.

Montanez should be ahead of Fio.

Depends what you want in a 4th outfielder and also somewhat dependent on your roster makeup in regards to right/left mix. I got the chance to see Lou in person a few games late in the season and IMO he is not a good fielder. He gets a poor jump on the ball and often takes the wrong angle. I think he is a better hitter than FIO and based on our inability to handle lefties, Lou would be the choice, but I would not be upset to see both moved for an upgrade.

[MarkF]

Beato will not be protected. He shouldn't even be in the discussion.

I doubt MacPhail goes to the Rule 5 draft with a full 40 man roster. He dumped Quiroz and Deza the day before the draft last year to give himself spots on the roster.

I could see Castillo, Lambert, and Hill lasting on the 40 man roster, though they could all be gotten rid of without consequence.

I am certainly not arguing with nou. But what is the point of going into the Draft protecting fewer than MLB allows? If we draft someone do we not get the chance to release someone and make roster space? Even if we do not draft someone, why would we release someone when we have 40 man roster space?

[Crazysilver03]

Depends what you want in a 4th outfielder and also somewhat dependent on your roster makeup in regards to right/left mix. I got the chance to see Lou in person a few games late in the season and IMO he is not a good fielder. He gets a poor jump on the ball and often takes the wrong angle. I think he is a better hitter than FIO and based on our inability to handle lefties, Lou would be the choice, but I would not be upset to see both moved for an upgrade.

I am willing to give Montanez the benefit of the doubt since he had been shut down from baseball related activities for close to two weeks before being summoned to the major league team.

[Crazysilver03]

I am certainly not arguing with nou. But what is the point of going into the Draft protecting fewer than MLB allows? If we draft someone do we not get the chance to release someone and make roster space? Even if we do not draft someone, why would we release someone when we have 40 man roster space?

Regarding the Rule 5 draft, a team can only partake in the major league portion of the draft if they have a free spot or spots on their major league roster (40 man roster).

While the logic makes sense regarding staying at 40 men, there will be some players the team may want to move from the roster because they are out of options, as well as many other reasons, that they would like to remove them during the off-season instead of waiting until spring.

MacPhail could remove a lot of people from the 40 man roster because he feels they aren't major league material, so why waste precious spots on them.

[Agent0]

There are a few advantages (and necessities) to remove players right away.

First, players from the 60 Day DL have to be brought back to the active roster.

Second, it is good for the players like Guillermo Rodriguez, Jeff Fiorentino, and Chris Waters, whom will be minor league free agents once they are removed from the roster. They can start looking for new teams, if they want to, sooner.

As far as I know, moving quickly really doen't help the club, unless you know that you're just releasing a guy.

I think that players only have to be brought back from the 60 day by late November.

OTOH, if a player like Fio is still on the 40 man after the world series and then dropped, can he still declare MiL free agency? I thought you had to be off a 40 man by the declaration date and if you missed it, you couldn't file.

[Crazysilver03]

As far as I know, moving quickly really doen't help the club, unless you know that you're just releasing a guy.

I think that players only have to be brought back from the 60 day by late November.

OTOH, if a player like Fio is still on the 40 man after the world series and then dropped, can he still declare MiL free agency? I thought you had to be off a 40 man by the declaration date and if you missed it, you couldn't file.

If a player is being out-righted for a second time (Fiorentino and GRod come to mind), they can declare minor league free agency whenever they want because they can refuse the assignment to the minors.

Regarding the likes of Waters or whomever being removed, I don't see why they couldn't be minor league free agents. If someone could come up with a ruling on that, that would be awesome.

[wildcard]

Aubrey has convinced me that he has to be protected on the 40 man roster.

The question is who goes? I think there may have to be a trade involved.

Fiorentino is the player that is so deep on the depth chart that he has little chance of making the team next spring. He is out of options. I think he is traded before the Rule 5 draft.

My guess: Fiorentino for Toronto AAA SS Angel Sanchez.

Sanchez was not called up at the end of the season and he is not scheduled to go to the AFL. It would seems that the Blue Jays are not really interested in him, but the O's should be. He has a chance of hitting better than Andino and he carries a pretty nice glove.

After the trade is made I would DFA Andino which makes room on the 40 man roster. I would try to get Andino to accept a spot on the AAA roster.

I think the O's keep Hughes on the 40 man roster because of the uncertain nature of first base at this point.

40 man roster projection

Starters

1. Bergy – 24

2. Matusz - 23

3. Tillman - 21/22

4. Guthrie – 31

5. Hernandez – 24

Relievers

6. J Johnson - 26

7. Mickolio - 25 - has options

8. Castillo -34 – has options

9. Uehara - 35

10. Hendrickson - 35 - re-signed

11. Albers - 27

12. Berken - 26 - has options

Additional pitchers

13. Lambert - 27 - has options

14. Ray -28 – has options

15. Meredith -26 - has options

16. Erbe - 22 - has options

17. Perrault - 27 - has options

18. S Johnson - 22 - has options

19. Thall -24 - has options

20. Lebron -25 – has option

21. Perez - 25 - has options

22. Spoone - 24 - has options

23. Patton - 24 - has option

Catchers

24. Wieters - 23

Outfielders

25. Markakis - 26

26. Jones - 24

27. Reimold - 26

28. Pie - 25

29. Montanez - 28 - has options

1B

30. Aubrey - 27/28

31. Scott – 31

32. Snyder - 23 - has options

33. Hughes - 26 -has options

2B

34. Roberts- 32

35. Turner - 25 - has options

SS

36. Izturis - 30

37. Florimon – 23 – has options

3B

38. Wigginton - 32

39. Bell - 22 - has options

Trade

40. SS Angel Sanchez - 26 for Fiorentino

DFA Andino

Exposed

Bass -28

Pauley - 26

Miller - 27/28

McCrory - 27

Waters - 29

Mora - 38 - FA

Moeller - 35

Baez - 32 - FA

Simon - 28

Hill - 30

Sarfate – 29

Liz - 26

Henn - 28/29

Does not need to be protected

Arrieta - 24 - has options

Britton - 22 - has options

Waring - 24 - has options

Ages as of April 2010

The only change I see to this projected roster for the Rule 5 draft is that Albers probably get DFA'd and the O's sign him to a AAA conract.

[BBdad]

Andy doesn't seem like the type of GM who enjoys losing players for zero return. I think any player with any value will be dealt before he just see's them disappear. There are plenty of pitchers including a couple of lefty handers that are cheap and teams would be interested in. I also think he has a plan and plenty of time.

[Stacey]

First, players from the 60 Day DL have to be brought back to the active roster.

Crazysilver, what's the date this has to happen by?

[Crazysilver03]

Crazysilver, what's the date this has to happen by?

Most teams usually do it early and to my knowledge, there isn't a clear deadline besides the November 20th deadline where all players must be placed on appropriate rosters for the Rule 5 draft.

[Agent0]

If a player is being out-righted for a second time (Fiorentino and GRod come to mind), they can declare minor league free agency whenever they want because they can refuse the assignment to the minors.

Regarding the likes of Waters or whomever being removed, I don't see why they couldn't be minor league free agents. If someone could come up with a ruling on that, that would be awesome.

You're right. Fio was a bad example because he's been outrighted before and can refuse an outright assignment this time. I had forgotten that he had already been outrighted.

My point was more about 6 year minor league FA's, not guys who refuse outright assignments. You were saying that there are advantages to making moves now, but I don't think any of them help the club (only the player). If you outright a guy now, he should be able to declare MiL free agency in a few weeks. However, if you outright him in late November right before Rule V 40 mans have to be set, he can't declare this year.

From what I've read, you have to be a off the 40 man by the filing period (the day after the world series?), otherwise you can't file for MiL FA this year. I can no longer find any link that addresses this specifically, but I'll keep looking.

[Crazysilver03]

You're right. Fio was a bad example because he's been outrighted before and can refuse an outright assignment this time. I had forgotten that he had already been outrighted.

My point was more about 6 year minor league FA's, not guys who refuse outright assignments. You were saying that there are advantages to making moves now, but I don't think any of them help the club (only the player). If you outright a guy now, he should be able to declare MiL free agency in a few weeks. However, if you outright him in late November right before Rule V 40 mans have to be set, he can't declare this year.

From what I've read, you have to be a off the 40 man by the filing period (the day after the world series?), otherwise you can't file for MiL FA this year. I can no longer find any link that addresses this specifically, but I'll keep looking.

I don't know if that is actually the case though.

The best example I can think of right now is Brandon Fahey. He was outrighted last year (on October 20th) and declared minor league free agency, even though it was his first time being taken off the roster. When you are taken off the roster shouldn't impede a player's right to minor league free agency. I would think you would have to keep the said 6YRMiLFA on the roster until Spring Training and then remove him from the roster where he is resigned to having to stay in the organization if it is his first time being removed.

I appreciate you looking for the link because I am quite interested in figuring this one out!

[waroriole]

Does Spoone really need to be protected? Is there any team who would be able to stash him at the end of their bullpen all year?

[Crazysilver03]

Does Spoone really need to be protected? Is there any team who would be able to stash him at the end of their bullpen all year?

The Orioles protected him after the 2008 season even though he had gone under the knife. I thought the Orioles could have risked exposing him because he would have missed most of the 2009 season and a team would have had to carry him into the 2010 season if they decided to keep him. Then I was even more surprised that the Orioles burned an option on him in 2009, instead of placing him on the DL to start the season. I guess it made sense since he would have had to have been optioned once he went to Frederick.

Anyway, at this point, the Orioles will protect him because the only want to unprotect him would be to DFA him from the 40 man roster and he would most certainly be claimed with his two options remaining.