Bedard to the bullpen?

[Tony-OH]

I tend to agree with those who think Bedard should stay in the rotation - if not here, then somewhere else.

I would have a hard time agreeing with anyone who thinks it is a good idea to move someone who can be at least a league average starting pitcher into the bullpen.

An average AL starter last year had an ERA of 4.50. Even with his struggles over the second half Bedard was a half-run better than that. He wasn't far behind that the year before. Combine those two seasons and he was a good bit better than that. I'll place more emphasis on his 141.7 IP last year and the the 279 IP the previous two seasons than I would on his 74.3 IP this season - especially since he's shown signs of coming out of his funk his last couple of starts.

Sorry, but no one is arguing just on the 74.3 innings he's pitched this year.

Bedard is a career 5.5 innings starter. He's got two pitches that grade out at major league average or better. With his pitching style, he would most likely do fantastic in a Arthur Rhodes role.

Saying all that, I wouldn't move him out of the rotation right now because there is no one ready to take his place. When Penn comes back, and if he's still struggling to get into the 7th inning, I think a move to the pen would benefit all involved.

[BigSteve]

I'll place more emphasis on his 141.7 IP last year and the the 279 IP the previous two seasons than I would on his 74.3 IP this season - especially since he's shown signs of coming out of his funk his last couple of starts.

What about the 155 IP since he came back from injury last year? I'd be more inclined to agree with you if he had a bad first half and a good second half last year, but instead he's picked up where he left off last season. He was poor in the second half last year, and he's been even worse this year. Over 29 starts, that has me very concerned.

I posted the numbers earlier in the thread - 6-13, 5.56, 1.65 WHIP, 155.1 IP in 29 GS. That's nothing but scary for a guy we have high hopes for.

[mweb]

What about the 155 IP since he came back from injury last year? I'd be more inclined to agree with you if he had a bad first half and a good second half last year, but instead he's picked up where he left off last season. He was poor in the second half last year, and he's been even worse this year. Over 29 starts, that has me very concerned.

I posted the numbers earlier in the thread - 6-13, 5.56, 1.65 WHIP, 155.1 IP in 29 GS. That's nothing but scary for a guy we have high hopes for.

To me that's the most important timeframe to look at with Bedard. It can't be called a small sample, it's what's most relevant because it's current, and it's post injury where he's obviously not the same as he was early last season.

[Sports Guy]

Sorry, but no one is arguing just on the 74.3 innings he's pitched this year.

Bedard is a career 5.5 innings starter. He's got two pitches that grade out at major league average or better. With his pitching style, he would most likely do fantastic in a Arthur Rhodes role.

Saying all that, I wouldn't move him out of the rotation right now because there is no one ready to take his place. When Penn comes back, and if he's still struggling to get into the 7th inning, I think a move to the pen would benefit all involved.

He has a good changeup as well but he doesn't throw it enough.

[Sports Guy]

To me that's the most important timeframe to look at with Bedard. It can't be called a small sample, it's what's most relevant because it's current, and it's post injury where he's obviously not the same as he was early last season.

Well, we can all agree that he had a very good value up until May of this year.

So, when judging his overall value, in reality, you are looking at him in a small sample size.

You acknowledge that he had good value this past offseason and obviously, when he was 4-1 with a 2.7 ERA(i think those were his numbers) to begin the year, his value was only stronger.

Since April 26, he has 4 starts where he gave up 5 ER or more and one of those starts was against Toronto(best offense in AL right now, especially versus lefties) and another against Boston.

[bgfield]

Since April 26, he has 4 starts where he gave up 5 ER or more and one of those starts was against Toronto(best offense in AL right now, especially versus lefties) and another against Boston.

To go off on a slight tangent, anyone else breathe a big sigh of relief when they saw Bedard wont pitch in this series?

Aside from tomorrow, I think the pitching matchups favor us. The O's might just be able to pull out a series win!

[Tony-OH]

He has a good changeup as well but he doesn't throw it enough.

Yeah Rob, there's a reason he doesn't throw it often. He doesn't have very good command of it. Never has. If he can't command it, it's not a plus pitch.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah Rob, there's a reason he doesn't throw it often. He doesn't have very good command of it. Never has. If he can't command it, it's not a plus pitch.

It is definitely improved this year.

[mweb]

Well, we can all agree that he had a very good value up until May of this year.

So, when judging his overall value, in reality, you are looking at him in a small sample size.

You acknowledge that he had good value this past offseason and obviously, when he was 4-1 with a 2.7 ERA(i think those were his numbers) to begin the year, his value was only stronger.

Since April 26, he has 4 starts where he gave up 5 ER or more and one of those starts was against Toronto(best offense in AL right now, especially versus lefties) and another against Boston.

He had a good value this offseason, but mostly because his great 9 start stretch was still relatively recent. At this point, it's much more difficult to think he'll be that pitcher again for any long period of time. His peak value was easily shortly before getting hurt last season.

And I don't see how his most recent 29 starts out of a 64 start career can be a small sample size. I'll put it this way, the only way another team would be high on his major league career is if they were looking at a small sample size, that being his great 9 start stretch.

[Sports Guy]

He had a good value this offseason, but mostly because his great 9 start stretch was still relatively recent. At this point, it's much more difficult to think he'll be that pitcher again for any long period of time. His peak value was easily shortly before getting hurt last season.

And I don't see how his most recent 29 starts out of a 64 start career can be a small sample size. I'll put it this way, the only way another team would be high on his major league career is if they were looking at a small sample size, that being his great 9 start stretch.

MWeb...Answer this for me....Did he have good value up until May of this year?

You know he had very good value in the offseason and obviously, a 4-1 record with a sub 3 ERA is going to keep his value high...So, would you say that his value has gone down because of his starts since he got back from the DL last year or since May of this year?

[mweb]

MWeb...Answer this for me....Did he have good value up until May of this year?

You know he had very good value in the offseason and obviously, a 4-1 record with a sub 3 ERA is going to keep his value high...So, would you say that his value has gone down because of his starts since he got back from the DL last year or since May of this year?

Since he got back from the DL. A bad 15 start stretch to end last year is more important than a good 4 start stretch to start this year. And again, his last 29 starts overall are what I'm looking at.

[Sports Guy]

Since he got back from the DL. A bad 15 start stretch to end last year is more important than a good 4 start stretch to start this year. And again, his last 29 starts overall are what I'm looking at.

And yet you still felt his value was high in the offseason.

And you couldn't have felt his value was down after a very solid April.

So, now you may be looking at the big picture but had he only had 2 rough starts, instead of 4, since April 26, my guess is you wouldn't think his value would be as low as you do right now.

[Sports Guy]

Since he got back from the DL. A bad 15 start stretch to end last year is more important than a good 4 start stretch to start this year. And again, his last 29 starts overall are what I'm looking at.

Bad 15 games? He had 6 QS in that stretch and had another 4 starts where he gave up 3 ER or less but he only went 5 IP.

In the other starts, only 3 were bad and they were against Boston, NY and Anaheim.

And he still ended the year, as 1970 said with a 4 ER.

I am not sure that shows 15 BAD starts. I think his second half showed us a guy who was a 3/4 starter...Not sure how that is BAD.

[mweb]

And yet you still felt his value was high in the offseason.

And you couldn't have felt his value was down after a very solid April.

So, now you may be looking at the big picture but had he only had 2 rough starts, instead of 4, since April 26, my guess is you wouldn't think his value would be as low as you do right now.

Ok, again, his value was very high last May, went down to high this past offseason, went up a little as he was showing that maybe he was more like the early 2005 Bedard, now has gone down to the lowest it's been in over a year.

Concerning the last part, I could just as easily say if he only had 2 good starts instead of 4 to start the year your perception would be different too.

Bottomline, I am focusing on a 29 start stretch. Not picked randomly to support my cause either, the return from injury makes sense as a starting point. You're trying to break down that 29 game stretch to diminish my point and make yours better. I will go with the 29 game stretch as a whole.

[BigSteve]

Bad 15 games? He had 6 QS in that stretch and had another 4 starts where he gave up 3 ER or less but he only went 5 IP.

In the other starts, only 3 were bad and they were against Boston, NY and Anaheim.

And he still ended the year, as 1970 said with a 4 ER.

I am not sure that shows 15 BAD starts. I think his second half showed us a guy who was a 3/4 starter...Not sure how that is BAD.

He was 1-7, 5.44 in 15 starts. I'm not sure how you can honestly say that isn't bad or that it's close to the quality of a number 3 starter. Again, if you look at his last year of starts, he's 6-13, 5.56. Is that acceptable?

6 QS out of 15 is not a good ratio at all, and pitching five innings with three runs or fewer isn't a good start - at least as far as I'm concerned.

It's easy to look at any pitcher's game log and pick out a few quality starts, a few more decent ones, and then say he wasn't all that bad. But the bottom line is that a 5.44 ERA is terrible and winning only once in 15 starts makes it impossible to say it wasn't a bad stretch.