Bedard to the bullpen?

[rp0806]

Okay, but the jury is very much still out on Loewen. I guess the thing to do is see how his next few starts are, (including tonight against Halladay. Yikes.) I'm skeptical about the virtues of having Adam in the rotation rather than Erik.

This gets back to the issue of giving the young players an opportunity. Loewen is exactly the kind of guy I'd like to see in the rotation -- the Orioles aren't going anywhere this year, so let him get some experience at the ML level while working with Mazzone.

But, again, Bedard isn't that young, and I'd like to see what he could do in the bullpen. Maybe he wouldn't be successful in that role, but I have a feeling that he could really dominate in 2 inning stints. Even though he didn't pitch much in the minors, the reality is that pitchers rarely become above average starters after they turn 27.

Also, I'm all for trading RLo, Hawkins, Javy, Tejada, Mora, Gibbons, and any other vets with any value. Let's say the Orioles made the trade I proposed recently -- Tejada and Mora/Gibbons for Cabrera, Aybar, Morales/Kotchman, Santana, and J. Rivera -- and traded Javy, Rlo, and Hawkins for low level prospects. The rotation by the end of the year could be Cabrera, Santana, Benson, Loewen, and Penn, with a bullpen of Ray, Bedard, Britton, Rleal, Williams, and Birkins. Lineup would be:

C Hernandez

1b Gibbons

2b Roberts

SS Aybar

3B Cabrera

RF Markakis

CF Patterson

LF Rivera (with Reimold maybe getting a cup of coffee)

DH Morales/Kotchman

[mweb]

I was talking about last season, not right now.

Another part of this(speaking inly about last year) is all the crap that went on with the team last year.

Seems like some players or coaches, we are allowed to use that as an excuse and others we are supposed to pretend it is not there.

I don't use it as an excuse with anyone except maybe Tejada. I think it's unacceptable to have your play great diminish because of what happened with Raffy last year. I also find it even less of an excuse for starting pitchers who only play once every 5 days and should be able to focus regardless of what's going on off the field.

[rp0806]

I'm not sure I see much reason to break up this year or even last year. The numbers that matter to me are these: 354 IP, 383 H, 33 HR, 159 BB, 297 K, 1.53 WHIP, .275 BAA, and 4.60 ERA. Obviously he doesn't have that many IP at the major league level, but 350 IP is still a pretty big sample, esp. given that he's already 27. What I see is a guy with a good but not fantastic K rate, a lousy BB rate, a good HR rate, and a high BAA. I think this reflects what we all know -- that he's got good stuff and can strike batters out and keep the ball out of the park, but has trouble keeping runners off base.

Can he turn it around and become an above average starter? Sure. But at this point it isn't likely IMO. And my gut tells me he can be an outstanding setup guy. With other starters coming up through the pipeline, maybe that would be a better role for BEdard.

The Orioles need to be bold and creative. This is one way to do it.

[Frobby]

That is a lot of numbers, and it is a little hard to distill it all down. The bottom line is that Bedard hasn't been very consistent, and we need to give it a little more time to see if a consistent trend one way or another is going to emerge.

I wonder -- if the Orioles had scored 5 runs for Bedard on Sunday, would we even be having this conversation?

[Mark Carver]

So wait, what would our rotation look like? My understanding was that Chen was supposed to go down, and Penn would replace HIM.

FYI - Bruce Chen can not be sent down without his permission... as a player with more than 5 years of ML experience, he can decline it. Than, the ballclub could keep him on the ML roster or release him, and continue to pay his 2006 salary.

He would than be able to sign on with any other team that would give him a shot.

[boogidownoriole]

I wonder -- if the Orioles had scored 5 runs for Bedard on Sunday, would we even be having this conversation?

Nope

:002_sconfused:

[rp0806]

Good but not fantastic K-Rate? A starting pitcher with a career 7.55 K-Rate is pretty darn good.

Ok, "pretty darn good" is probably accurate. By "not fantastic" I just meant that he's not in the J. Santana class.

[Sports Guy]

Ok, "pretty darn good" is probably accurate. By "not fantastic" I just meant that he's not in the J. Santana class.

So what? He is arguably the best pitcher in baseball.

[rp0806]

So what? He is arguably the best pitcher in baseball.

Good lord...talk about picking nits. We're just trying to find the right adjective to use to describe Bedard's K rate. I think it's fair to say that it's not "fantastic" right now, b/c that's a term I'd use for a guy like Santana. Do you disagree?

[Sports Guy]

Good lord...talk about picking nits. We're just trying to find the right adjective to use to describe Bedard's K rate. I think it's fair to say that it's not "fantastic" right now, b/c that's a term I'd use for a guy like Santana. Do you disagree?

No one said it is even good this year.

However, prior to this year, he has had a well above average K rate. Who cares what word you use...It is still upper echelon and better than probably 90% of the starters out there.

[rp0806]

However, prior to this year, he has had a well above average K rate. Who cares what word you use...It is still upper echelon and better than probably 90% of the starters out there.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I said in my post above that he has a very good K rate. No one disagrees with that.

[Sports Guy]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I said in my post above that he has a very good K rate. No one disagrees with that.

The point is, who cares how you describe it. You could say, great, fantastic, good, very good or supercalifragilelistikexbalidoshis for all it matters.

[rp0806]

The point is, who cares how you describe it. You could say, great, fantastic, good, very good or supercalifragilelistikexbalidoshis for all it matters.

This is simply a discussion I was having with 1970. If you find it pointless, why did you get involved?

[RShack]

Saying that it's best to move him to the pen is not looking at all the facts either. You're just talking about the facts we know. You're not including the facts we don't know. There could be a bunch of those. We don't know the tiny-but-important details of what he's doing and not doing. We don't know what he's trying and not trying. We don't know exactly what Mazzone wants him to do differently. And we don't know exactly how Mazzone rates him, and we're not gonna know that because Mazzone's not gonna tell us.

Here's one thing we do know. In ATL, Mazzone somehow worked with Schuerholz to have brightly-talented guys somehow suddenly disappear to another team when he got fed up with them. But he never said anything bad about them. AFAIK, Leo busts his butt to work with people for as long as he thinks the guy can live up to his expectations of him. AFAIK, Leo doesn't babysit pitchers for very long. I think these facts tell us that the thing to do is trust Leo on this one. I think he knows a whole lot more about *exactly* what "it" is than all-of-us-combined.

Here's the thing. This is a MESSAGE Board. I DON'T NEED TO KNOW WHAT MAZZONE THINKS TO HAVE AN OPINION!!!!!

This is one of those ridiculous posts that basically says, "no one should have any opinion other than the professionals because they know all."

I don't know why you're yelling just because I disagreed with you. I didn't say anything even remotely like "no one should have an opinion". You're putting words in my mouth that I never even *thought*, much less *said*. Read what I *actually* said, especially the bolded part: All I did was present some additional facts, and then said that my opinion is that we should trust Leo on this one.

We have a guy who has more talent than demonstrated performance, and his main shortcoming is that he can't make it thru 7. I don't see how the BP is gonna help that.

But, please excuse me for having an opinion different than yours.

[Tony-OH]

The point is, who cares how you describe it. You could say, great, fantastic, good, very good or supercalifragilelistikexbalidoshis for all it matters.

SG, stop making it personal. You've done a great job on this discussion, but you are spiraling downward quickly.

You make some valid points, and if Bedard stays in the rotation for the rest of the year I'm not going to be upset. But, i think in the long run we're going to find out that Bedard ends up having a much better career from the bullpen.

Good points on both sides though.