Chris Tillman

[Leitch]

I feel like I am a lot higher on Tillman than a lot of other guys here. I think he's gonna be Mussina lite, and it's gonna start real soon.

[Sports Guy]

Tillman may end up being better than Matusz but not yet.

He needs better command and consistency to be at that level.

I am hoping for 175 IP and a 4.50 ERA from Tillman this year.

[Lucky Jim]

Tillman may end up being better than Matusz but not yet.

He needs better command and consistency to be at that level.

I am hoping for 175 IP and a 4.50 ERA from Tillman this year.

I'd be happy with that, if it included a K-rate around 7 and a HR/9 of 1.1-1.2 or lower.

[TyCobb]

I feel like I am a lot higher on Tillman than a lot of other guys here. I think he's gonna be Mussina lite, and it's gonna start real soon.

We are in the minority on this board. I believe Tillman was ranked higher than Matusz nationally. Not sure how it is now.

The guy improved at every level in the minors. He had a 9+ K/9 all through the minors and was able to increase his K/BB at every level. 2.19 K/BB in A+, 2.37 K/BB in AA, and 3.81 K/BB at AAA. He did it at a very young age too. His FIP improved at every level as well. 4.43 at A+, 3.41 at AA, and 2.76 at AAA.

IMO, Tillman is going to be a force on the staff. His Changeup is one the best I have ever seen. A Cutter did wonders for Bedard and I won't be surprised if it has the same effect for Tillman. He is going to be extremely difficult to square up if he throws a hard cutter.

[JTrea81]

I will also say, the new pitch Kranitz has him working on - the cutter - could be the pitch that Tillman can use to keep the ball in the park.

It will be interesting to see how it develops in ST...

[Mike B]

For a guy who claims he doesn't know anything about pitching you are spot on in what I see in Tillman. I will take it a step even further though. I see more talent potential in Tillman than I do in Matusz and that is no slap in the face to Matusz as I think he is going to be very good as well. I just think Tillman's stuff is electric, much moreso than Matusz who is more of a command/control type pitcher. If Tillman can gain better command of his pitches the sky is the limit for this young man.

I agree with your post and FRobby's. I really think that if we have a young starter who goes 17-7 with a 3.3 ERA this year it will be Matusz, because he seems to be the more polished at this time. However I can see Tillman gaing 10 pounds and build up leg strength and becomea TOR guy who consistently wins 15-20 games for 8 to 10 years.

I hope people can keep and open mind over the next 2 years because we have an abundance of young and talented pitchers that are the true hope to closing the gap between us and the upper echelon on the AL East. maybe we will be lucky (we are due), and we will have one of these kids crash onto the scene, and be lights out, but history tells us most will have growing pains. Be patient and enjoy watching these kids get better.

[Mike B]

I will also say, the new pitch Kranitz has him working on - the cutter - could be the pitch that Tillman can use to keep the ball in the park.

It will be interesting to see how it develops in ST...

What is interesting is that you ignore the fact that Tillman in 399 minor league innings threw just 32 home runs balls. That is about.75 home runs for every 9 innings. Granted in 65 innings he threw 15 which is far to many but let's give him time to adjust. IMO he will. The problem with using stats, instead of your eyes to evaluate a player is you very rarely get to see the upside.

[Sports Guy]

I will also say, the new pitch Kranitz has him working on - the cutter - could be the pitch that Tillman can use to keep the ball in the park.

It will be interesting to see how it develops in ST...

Yea, he needs to do something...Pound the ball more inside would be nice.

He can give up homers...Some of the great pitchers will give up homers...The idea is to make most of them solo shots. That's where his command has to come in.

Tillman is likely going to be a good one but he also has to improve...He is very advanced for his age but he is far from a finished product whereas Matusz is almost there already.

Its up to Tillman and his work ethic for him to reach the top level he should be at.

[Frobby]

Tillman is likely going to be a good one but he also has to improve...He is very advanced for his age but he is far from a finished product whereas Matusz is almost there already.

Its up to Tillman and his work ethic for him to reach the top level he should be at.

A point Kranitz made on Hot Stove, that I certainly agree with, is that these guys benefit a lot from going home for the winter and digesting what they have learned. I expect to see a focused group of young pitchers this spring.

[JTrea81]

What is interesting is that you ignore the fact that Tillman in 399 minor league innings threw just 32 home runs balls. That is about.75 home runs for every 9 innings. Granted in 65 innings he threw 15 which is far to many but let's give him time to adjust. IMO he will. The problem with using stats, instead of your eyes to evaluate a player is you very rarely get to see the upside.

One of the concerns I had about Tillman when he was coming up through the lower minors with Seattle was how often he pitched up in the strike zone with his fastball. It helped him rack up a good amount of strikeouts, but also spelled danger for his future home run rates when he started facing guys strong enough to put those pitches in the seats

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/tillmans-flyballs

[NewMarketSean]

In 2010 I want to see him use less pitches to make it through 6 IP. Last season he went over 100 pitches in 8 of his 12 starts and the deepest he ever went into a game was 6.2 IP. 3 other times he used 90+ pitches and 2 of those times he only went 4.2 IP and 5 IP.

I think once he has a better grasp of his stuff he'll be more efficient. But that is what I am looking for in Tillman this year: better efficiency...and I think that will translate to a better ERA.

[Mike B]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/tillmans-flyballs

I had read the quote from Cameron before but IMO it does not give a young pitcher any credit for making adjustments. Tillman, is very fluid in his delivery which should make it easier to adjust. As for pitching up in the strike zone many great pitchers have done that. Jim Palmer quickly comes to mind.

[Sports Guy]

I had read the quote from Cameron before but IMO it does not give a young pitcher any credit for making adjustments. Tillman, is very fluid in his delivery which should make it easier to adjust. As for pitching up in the strike zone many great pitchers have done that. Jim Palmer quickly comes to mind.

Tillman doesn't have the explosion in his fastball to pitch up in the zone. Now, he may be able to improve upon this as he adds to his frame but as of the end of the year, he didn't have it.

There is no doubt he needs to correct this somewhat. You can't overlook this and just poo poo, as you are doing.

Jtrea is right about this...He needs to keep the ball down more or, at the very least, get inside more...that way the hitters can't extend their arms.

[Mike B]

Tillman doesn't have the explosion in his fastball to pitch up in the zone. Now, he may be able to improve upon this as he adds to his frame but as of the end of the year, he didn't have it.

There is no doubt he needs to correct this somewhat. You can't overlook this and just poo poo, as you are doing.

Jtrea is right about this...He needs to keep the ball down more or, at the very least, get inside more...that way the hitters can't extend their arms.

How am I poo pooing ( BTW are they words?) it. I said that Tillman was not a HR pitcher in the minors. He allowed 32 HR's in 399 innings. That is a low number. We saw him for 65 innings last year pitching against quality teams. No doubt he allowed too many HR's (15) but you have to feel that with expierience and time he will adjust. Watch Tillman, he like matusz has the ability to repeat his motion with the fast ball and curve. I would imagine we will see a better change which is the great equalizer in keeping a batter off balance.

My whole point that started the discussion was all the young guys will need to adjust and what we saw in a small window last year should not label guys going forward. Also Tillmans 92-94 MPH fast ball combined with a knee buckling curve should allow him to pitch up, just not up and in the middle.

[EL_Coyote]

It's my understanding that Chris Tillman Tops off at 175 IP this year. The primary worry is that he gives up fewer HR/9 and keeps his pitch counts down. Sure, there is likely to be a learning curve again. However I am not going to be down on him if on June 1, his E.R.A. is above 5.00