Over a week ago the O's were reportedly "aggressive" in the free agent market...

[Arthur_Bryant]

Rather than start a new thread, I figured I would throw this out here.

It is being reported on MLBTraderumors that Willie Mo Pena is trying to make a come-back. This has Baltimore written all over it. I am not trying to be negative, but this really does seem like a move that Baltimore would be interested in.

I hope not. Forty games in the PCL at age 28, and teams are all over him again?

[maybenxtyr]

I hope not. Forty games in the PCL at age 28, and teams are all over him again?

I do not like the idea, but until the Orioles prove otherwise, it looks like a move they would make. I hope I am wrong.

[SrMeowMeow]

Why is the response to these types of things...well, hardly any teams have done anything?

Why do people care what other teams are or aren't doing?

Because that's the only idea we have of what's actually possible. Obviously.

[JDubs]

Why is the response to these types of things...well, hardly any teams have done anything?

Why do people care what other teams are or aren't doing?

Because it demonstrates industry practices and shows that it is unreasonable to expect 'big moves' at this juncture. Kind of obvious really.

[Sports Guy]

Because that's the only idea we have of what's actually possible. Obviously.

I am sorry but have the A's done anything yet?

Just another excuse.

Teams are making moves..Teams are meeting with players..Teams are offering contracts.

What are the Orioles doing? Talking?

[Sports Guy]

Because it demonstrates industry practices and shows that it is unreasonable to expect 'big moves' at this juncture. Kind of obvious really.

Who said they had to make big moves yet? Can you point out for me who said that?

And since you quoted me, can you point out where I said it?

[SrMeowMeow]

I am sorry but have the A's done anything yet?

Just another excuse.

Teams are making moves..Teams are meeting with players..Teams are offering contracts.

What are the Orioles doing? Talking?

So you agree that it's valid to judge the Orioles compared to other teams? Because that's what you're doing.

And in what universe do you think that you know whether or not the O's are meeting with players and offering contracts? Get real.

[SrMeowMeow]

In fact, I'm not letting you get away with any of this. The Orioles have been tied to plenty of players. We've heard that they're being aggressive. That they're prioritizing top free agents (V-Mart). They're tied to Beltre, and that Japanese infielder. We know that they're talking to Koji. They reportedly asked about Bartlett and Beltre. They were in on Upton, possibly still are. That stacks up very favorably with every other team in baseball.

But none of this means anything to you, because you've decided that, for NO REASON AT ALL, you know what's going on. You have a crystal ball or a wiretap on the warehouse. You see Andy MacPhail's thoughts. And you know - you know - that all he does is lie in a giant bean-bag chair, smoke opium, and dream about resigning Izturis, because he's lazy. He's dumb. He's incompetent. And not only does this mean that you think you know what's going on, you continue to hold to your beliefs in the face of evidence that the O's are being active, aggressive, pursuing options, prioritizing, preparing to spend money...you're close-minded on the subject and yet you hold forth at length. It sucks.

[Sports Guy]

So you agree that it's valid to judge the Orioles compared to other teams? Because that's what you're doing.

Actually no..I am just responding to the stupid responses acting as if no team is doing anything..Teams are active..they are doing things.

And in what universe do you think that you know whether or not the O's are meeting with players and offering contracts? Get real.

Ahh, this extremely intelligent response! I love this one. Ok, how about this..Show me evidence that they are doing this?

In fact, let's see evidence that they have done this over the last few years by this point in the offseason.

[Sports Guy]

In fact, I'm not letting you get away with any of this. The Orioles have been tied to plenty of players. We've heard that they're being aggressive. That they're prioritizing top free agents (V-Mart). They're tied to Beltre, and that Japanese infielder. We know that they're talking to Koji. They reportedly asked about Bartlett and Beltre. They were in on Upton, possibly still are. That stacks up very favorably with every other team in baseball

So, let me get this straight..you believe all the media reports that we are talking to some of these guys. However, you want to come back with the argument that we don't know what they are doing, so how can I judge them on that. Well, we have heard nothing about them meeting with players or offering contracts. So, my question to you is simple...Why believe the reports you want to but not believe the lack of reports on what I was talking about? Or, do you just live your life with the motto of "double standard"?

I am glad that they appear to be talking to people.....That's encouraging.

But it doesn't change the obvious issue..That what they do is more important. Results matter, not talking.

You mention Nishioka..Of course, what you don't mention is that they don't think they will post ebough. You mention Upton but what have we really seen that they are tied to them?

And great, we have heard that a player that they would have to be given a stupid contract to is their top priority..Wow, now that's re-assuring.

[SrMeowMeow]

.

So, let me get this straight..you believe all the media reports that we are talking to some of these guys. However, you want to come back with the argument that we don't know what they are doing, so how can I judge them on that. Well, we have heard nothing about them meeting with players or offering contracts. So, my question to you is simple...Why believe the reports you want to but not believe the lack of reports on what I was talking about? Or, do you just live your life with the motto of "double standard"?

What %$@# lack of reports?

I mean, this is such a simple concept. We know almost nothing about what any team is doing right now. What we do know comes in the form of rumors and leaks. According to said rumors and leaks (our ONLY INFORMATION SOURCE AT THIS POINT), the Orioles have been very active and aggressive. Do you understand?

[Sports Guy]

What %$@# lack of reports?

I mean, this is such a simple concept. We know almost nothing about what any team is doing right now. What we do know comes in the form of rumors and leaks. According to said rumors and leaks (our ONLY INFORMATION SOURCE AT THIS POINT), the Orioles have been very active and aggressive. Do you understand?

Oh I understand..You are the slow one.

Did you not read what I asked?

Let me try to break this down so even you can figure this out:

And in what universe do you think that you know whether or not the O's are meeting with players and offering contracts

That was your poor response to me.

The universe I am in, is the same one you are in...IE the media universe.

You believe the media reports that has us tied to these guys. And I believe the lack of reports surrounding the Orioles that haven't mentioned us offering contracts or meeting with players(like how Texas and NY have met with Lee for example).

So, why are the media reports that are linking us to players valid but the lack of ones talking about us offering contracts and meeting with players face to face not valid?

[Sports Guy]

Because, it means, we haven't yet missed out on any significant opportunities.

I share the concern with you and Scottie that we will not be proactive and that we will have a poor offseason, based on the track record of MacPhail. The only difference is, I'm not going to rant about it as if it had already happened. Because we don't KNOW what will happen, we can only speculate.

I will be right there besides you criticizing MacPhail if he has a poor offseason, after the fact. I just think it's silly to say: "I think we are going to have a poor offseason" and then to begin the criticism in advance, as if it had already happened.

It reminds me of the 30 page thread saying how terrible it was that we were probably going to bring Crowley back as hitting coach, with some people making the same point 10, 20, 30 times. Then it turned out we didn't bring him back, so all that "criticism" was criticism of ... nothing but imagination. It's nothing but masturbation, and I'm not going to join in the circle jerk and criticize the Orioles for something that they MIGHT do in the future. I'll give opinions on what I think they should do, and I'll react either positively or negatively as appropriate to what they actually do. But a thread to pre-emptively criticize something that you think might happen is the height of absurdity to me.

How often do we hear this statement on here?

I have zero confidence in the team of PA and AM. I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Eddie_Ripken]

I'm throwing my hat in the ring in this thread the same as I have others. I am agreeing with Scottie here.....and my reasoning is simple.....give me an example from over the past few years(up to 12 years really) where we have gone out and made a bold/smart/aggressive move. Show me. Until I SEE actual signings and/or trades I will refuse to fall for the ol' "just wait, this year it really is going to be different".

Trading Bedard and Miggy almost doesn't count. That was damn near a no brainer. I say almost doesn't count because I give MacPhail credit for the return.

[SrMeowMeow]

That was your poor response to me.

The universe I am in, is the same one you are in...IE the media universe.

You believe the media reports that has us tied to these guys. And I believe the lack of reports surrounding the Orioles that haven't mentioned us offering contracts or meeting with players(like how Texas and NY have met with Lee for example).

So, why are the media reports that are linking us to players valid but the lack of ones talking about us offering contracts and meeting with players face to face not valid?

You believe what you want to believe. You have a narrative crafted in which you are smarter than the FO and you enjoy it too much to spoil it with reality.

Here are the reports of teams meeting with players on MLBTR:

White Sox and Dunn, Nationals and De La Rosa, Yankees and Rangers with Lee, Marlins and Javier Vazquez. And the Tigers and Joaquin Benoit, since they signed him.

Wow! Orioles, falling behind the curve! Not to mention that I don't want the Orioles in on any of those four players.