Over a week ago the O's were reportedly "aggressive" in the free agent market...

[NewMarketSean]

Maybe MacPhail punched a guy in the face and took the phone from him to call another team about a player. I'd say that's aggressive.

[Sports Guy]

Not dodging, just tired of playing your game.

Ok good....then stop wasting my time if you don't want to actually engage in a real conversation with me.

[Sports Guy]

Rather HARSH SG

That statement seems to be derogatory. Which is of course against the rules right?

All he does is run into a thread, take a shot at me and then run away with his tail between his legs so he can go talk about how good his awful football team is...oh, and then he takes shot at the Ravens and their fans as well.

So no, its not harsh.

[ScottieBaseball]

Bold is pointed out for SG who asked for this.

Anyway, I don't think your second paragraph is very logical. The reason why they didn't get the "free agents who could have made a positive impact" is not because they've waited too long, it's because they weren't willing to sign those guys for thos price they would have cost.

Again, there's good reason to be skeptical of what they'll do this off-season, but the fact that they haven't made a move yet when few if any moves they should have made have occurred is not a reason to assume the off-season will be poor results-wise.

Last season, they had targeted the guys they signed by this time, well this off-season they've targeted several SS's, VMart, Beltre, Konerko, possibly other first basemen, possibly a vet starter, and possibly Upton. So while I don't support all the targets, it's not a bad list imo and shows there may be a willingness to make some big moves.

The second paragraph isn't logical? Maybe a tad premature, but it's totally logical.

And my original post stemmed from a week-and-a-half old report that the O's were being aggressive in the free agent market. I didn't expect to see that they'd signed someone the following day, but outside of that report, it looks like things aren't progressing any differently than they have in any other off-season. Regardless of the magnitude of the other moves that have been made...other teams are moving.

As far as the O's off-season "targets"...we've been down this road as well. They'll have to overpay for just about everyone on that list of targets. I'm sure there's a "willingness to make some big moves", but I don't know if that translates to a "willingness to overpay for players that will improve this team."

[Going Underground]

I am not sure anyone listened to the Buck interview from last week. Nothing earth shattering but says Baltimore is a great place to play.

http://1057thefan.cbslocal.com/2010/11/16/orioles-manager-buck-showalter/

[El Gordo]

The second paragraph isn't logical? Maybe a tad premature, but it's totally logical.

And my original post stemmed from a week-and-a-half old report that the O's were being aggressive in the free agent market. I didn't expect to see that they'd signed someone the following day, but outside of that report, it looks like things aren't progressing any differently than they have in any other off-season. Regardless of the magnitude of the other moves that have been made...other teams are moving.

As far as the O's off-season "targets"...we've been down this road as well. They'll have to overpay for just about everyone on that list of targets. I'm sure there's a "willingness to make some big moves", but I don't know if that translates to a "willingness to overpay for players that will improve this team."

Again, what players do you believe they should have been agressive with by now, and shown a willingness to overspend to get? Beltre? Konerko? Lee? Dunn? Upton? Is Lee, for example so much more valuable as a 1B option, that we should offer a 2 year deal and risk losing a pick, rather than waiting to see if he is offered arbitration. Should we be agressive with Beltre and offer 5 years?

[mweb]

The second paragraph isn't logical? Maybe a tad premature, but it's totally logical.

And my original post stemmed from a week-and-a-half old report that the O's were being aggressive in the free agent market. I didn't expect to see that they'd signed someone the following day, but outside of that report, it looks like things aren't progressing any differently than they have in any other off-season. Regardless of the magnitude of the other moves that have been made...other teams are moving.

As far as the O's off-season "targets"...we've been down this road as well. They'll have to overpay for just about everyone on that list of targets. I'm sure there's a "willingness to make some big moves", but I don't know if that translates to a "willingness to overpay for players that will improve this team."

We'll have to agree to disagree about it being totally logical and you didn't even address the primary reason why I don't think it is.

Other teams are moving by doing what? What have we missed out on?

I think we likely have a different philosophy on how this team should be built anyway since you seem to want splashes and for them to overpay for guys while I don't think that's the best way to go for the most part. But again, that's not my issue with this thread. My issue is ripping AM and the O's for not getting stuff done by November 20, not being skeptical that big moves will be made which is understandable.

[ScottieBaseball]

Again, what players do you believe they should have been agressive with by now, and shown a willingness to overspend to get? Beltre? Konerko? Lee? Dunn? Upton? Is Lee, for example so much more valuable as a 1B option, that we should offer a 2 year deal and risk losing a pick, rather than waiting to see if he is offered arbitration. Should we be agressive with Beltre and offer 5 years?

Beltre for sure. They should be rolling out the orange carpet for him right now.

[Roll Tide]

I am not sure anyone listened to the Buck interview from last week. Nothing earth shattering but says Baltimore is a great place to play.

http://1057thefan.cbslocal.com/2010/11/16/orioles-manager-buck-showalter/

SURE.....At a discount though.

And is appealing to guys like Millar & Damon who are in rapid decline & the teams willing to pay higher salaries don't want anymore.

[El Gordo]

Beltre for sure. They should be rolling out the orange carpet for him right now.

Really? You want to offer Beltre 5 years and more than $64M?.....:scratchchinhmm:

[Sports Guy]

We'll have to agree to disagree about it being totally logical and you didn't even address the primary reason why I don't think it is.

Other teams are moving by doing what? What have we missed out on?

I think we likely have a different philosophy on how this team should be built anyway since you seem to want splashes and for them to overpay for guys while I don't think that's the best way to go for the most part. But again, that's not my issue with this thread. My issue is ripping AM and the O's for not getting stuff done by November 20, not being skeptical that big moves will be made which is understandable.

Forget the idea if you agree with them wanting Vmart or not.

They have said he is one of their top priorities.

Do you believe they should have met with him and offered a contract already?

[Sports Guy]

Really? You want to offer Beltre 5 years and more than $64M?.....:scratchchinhmm:

Here is my thing...We know he is a type A and will be offered arbitration.

If you have identified him as a guy you want, why not meet with him and offer him a contract already?

I guarantee you that if AM had done this already, people would be on here praising the hell out of him. But, when he isn't doing that, people think its absurd for some to want him to do that.

It basically comes back to one thing...Whatever the Orioles do, fans believe that is the best way of doing things. If he was out there offering deals, making trades, etc...people would be praising him. If he sits back, waits for the market to set itself, people think its fine because not many other teams are making moves.

[mweb]

Forget the idea if you agree with them wanting Vmart or not.

They have said he is one of their top priorities.

Do you believe they should have met with him and offered a contract already?

I don't care. It's not important. If they sign him or don't, it will be because what they are willing to offer compared to other teams, it won't be because they offered him a contract first or whatever.

BTW, the Red Sox apparently want him and Beltre back. Where are their offers? That awful Theo Epstein moving so slow.

[ScottieBaseball]

Really? You want to offer Beltre 5 years and more than $64M?.....:scratchchinhmm:

Yes. That's EXACTLY what I just said. Word for word.

[Sports Guy]

I don't care. It's not important. If they sign him or don't, it will be because what they are willing to offer compared to other teams, it won't be because they offered him a contract first or whatever.

BTW, the Red Sox apparently want him and Beltre back. Where are their offers? That awful Theo Epstein moving so slow.

The Red Sox have a luxury the Orioles don't..they are good and players want to go there.

They don't have to be on top of every player they want from the beginning.

This is all I know..The same strategy that you believe is fine, is the same one this team has had year after year and when does it work? How often do the Orioles come out of the offseason with you feeling they had a great offseason and that we are a much better team for it? How often does their strategy work?