Trading Adam Jones

[El Gordo]

The problem is that the Orioles need too many pieces. They won't sign the top available players ....so the best chance we have is trading our players that have the most value. Trading guysj like Vlad and Lee will get you very little.

Lets pretend they would. Who would they be, this fall, how many of them would you expect to see signed, and for how much? Pujols, Fielder, Reyes, and CC? You think it is reasonable for any or all of these guys to be signed by us?

[TradeAngelos]

The problem is that the Orioles need too many pieces. They won't sign the top available players ....so the best chance we have is trading our players that have the most value. Trading guysj like Vlad and Lee will get you very little.

No the problem is we haven't signed ANY of those pieces.....EVER and never will. You sign a piece for the LONG TERM, and then don't have to try to be Ms Cleo and predict 3 years out whether we will be competing or not while said player is still under contract. You sign a guy for 6 or 7 years and he WILL be there! Then you sign another one here or there....and eventually you have a most of those pieces. You can't do it all in one year, it takes time. But again, we can't even fathom signing one of those pieces much less multiple ones.

[ThisIsOurHouse]

So again Angelos has won, and the fanbase loses. I bet he is sitting back in his $5000 office chair with a big smile on his face reading these threads. Actually he probably isn't the one reading, he just paid some 85 year old who can just barely still read, takes twice as long but is working for almost nothing on a 1 year contract.

Before you make a bold statement like this can you name a team in sports that are in a harder position then us? In my opinion being a gm for the Orioles now is one of the hardest jobs in sports. In order for our team to make the playoffs we need to be great in all faces in the game. We cannot be like the Giants and just rely on pitching.

I highly doubt Angelos is this evil guy using us just to make profits, is he a great owner, no, but I do not think he is trying to make us worse.

[TradeAngelos]

Before you make a bold statement like this can you name a team in sports that are in a harder position then us?

Nope. Thank the MLBPA. Your point?

In my opinion being a gm for the Orioles now is one of the hardest jobs in sports.

Agreed.

In order for our team to make the playoffs we need to be great in all faces in the game. We cannot be like the Giants and just rely on pitching.

That is where the "buy the bats" plan comes into play. (a plan I fully support!) But of course, that is just lip service. We haven't bought a real bat since the Clinton administration and never will as long as that old man owns the team.

I highly doubt Angelos is this evil guy using us just to make profits, is he a great owner, no, but I do not think he is trying to make us worse.

He could care less about worse....better...wins....losses....he cares about the bottom line. Of course he isn't going to go out of his way to make the team worse but he also will not go out of his way tomake the team better......or even respectable.

[El Gordo]

Nope. Thank the MLBPA. Your point?

Agreed.

That is where the "buy the bats" plan comes into play. (a plan I fully support!) But of course, that is just lip service. We haven't bought a real bat since the Clinton administration and never will as long as that old man owns the team.

He could care less about worse....better...wins....losses....he cares about the bottom line. Of course he isn't going to go out of his way to make the team worse but he also will not go out of his way tomake the team better......or even respectable.

What is inane about all this is thinking that the O's are PA's main source of income. The O's for him is a hobby/stewardship as it is for many owners.

[stuckin82]

Owning a baseball team is not a major profit generator. Angelos in no way makes his living from the O's, not do most other baseball owners. Angelos and his law firm makes hundreds of millions prosecuting asbestos-related cases and his success there has led him to invest in real estate as well. A link to a story from 2000 is a good summary that lays out some of the points. I looked for something more recent but didn't see it and got tired. This one encapsulates the theme. A sports team makes tens of millions a year at most and it is likely less than that for teams like the O's.

http://www2.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=3575

[ThisIsOurHouse]

Nope. Thank the MLBPA. Your point?

Agreed.

That is where the "buy the bats" plan comes into play. (a plan I fully support!) But of course, that is just lip service. We haven't bought a real bat since the Clinton administration and never will as long as that old man owns the team.

He could care less about worse....better...wins....losses....he cares about the bottom line. Of course he isn't going to go out of his way to make the team worse but he also will not go out of his way tomake the team better......or even respectable.

1. Baseball is a tough sport to manage period. It is not like the NBA where one guy can bring you from the cellar to playoff contenders. It is not like the NFL where there is a salary cap and the rebuilding process is much faster since drafted players immediately play. The good news is baseball is starting to realize this and they are beginning to make changes to level the playing field.

2. Thanks!

3. How much would a Teixeira really help us though; as of now we are tenth in the AL in runs, and 13th in ERA. He would help in the run department a great deal but we would still have major gaps in our pitching. This team has a ton of holes and the only way to fill those holes is through the minors. Hopefully our young arms improve and we can have a solid pitching staff. But we need a true stud for us to get out of the cellar of the AL East. We are not like the Yankees where we can fill every hole with money.

4. You have a valid point and my only explanation is he is at the point of his life we he really does not care. His interest in the team is probably long gone and he does not want to make too big of a dent in his account. However, my point is the next owner coming in is not going to immediately be the savior of our team. If any fan thinks that getting a new owner is going to instantly make our organization a winner than you are going to be greatly disappointed because this team has a long way to go before we are going to be contenders. Now would a new owner take the risk necessary in order to make us a winner, I have no idea. But what I do know is this job is a lot more complicating then just throwing money at the problem.

[El Gordo]

1. Baseball is a tough sport to manage period. It is not like the NBA where one guy can bring you from the cellar to playoff contenders. It is not like the NFL where there is a salary cap and the rebuilding process is much faster since drafted players immediately play. The good news is baseball is starting to realize this and they are beginning to make changes to level the playing field.

2. Thanks!

3. How much would a Teixeira really help us though; as of now we are tenth in the AL in runs, and 13th in ERA. He would help in the run department a great deal but we would still have major gaps in our pitching. This team has a ton of holes and the only way to fill those holes is through the minors. Hopefully our young arms improve and we can have a solid pitching staff. But we need a true stud for us to get out of the cellar of the AL East. We are not like the Yankees where we can fill every hole with money.

4. You have a valid point and my only explanation is he is at the point of his life we he really does not care. His interest in the team is probably long gone and he does not want to make too big of a dent in his account. However, my point is the next owner coming in is not going to immediately be the savior of our team. If any fan thinks that getting a new owner is going to instantly make our organization a winner than you are going to be greatly disappointed because this team has a long way to go before we are going to be contenders. Now would a new owner take the risk necessary in order to make us a winner, I have no idea. But what I do know is this job is a lot more complicating then just throwing money at the problem.

If he didn't care why would he pay 3M out of his pocket to get Vlad to sign. AM was going to stick with the 5M offer take it or leave it. I won't be surprised if PA shells out a lot the next few years because he cares to have a winner in his life time. And as far as spending making a difference, if we had had Tea-bag and CC playing for us this year, instead of DLee and Bergesen, we'd still be just barely .500. Only the payroll would be 120M.

[TradeAngelos]

If he didn't care why would he pay 3M out of his pocket to get Vlad to sign. AM was going to stick with the 5M offer take it or leave it.

Small price to pay to appease the fanbase and make it look like you are trying. Talk to me when he overrules a standard lowball offer to a free agent of $100 million plus and writes that check.

I won't be surprised if PA shells out a lot the next few years because he cares to have a winner in his life time. And as far as spending making a difference, if we had had Tea-bag and CC playing for us this year, instead of DLee and Bergesen, we'd still be just barely .500. Only the payroll would be 120M.

The only thing Angelos is shelling out is legal bills for his asbestos cases.

The defeatist mentality reigns supreme. Why don't you go crunch some numbers about the impact of two legit superstars, and the clubhouse and overall organizational outlook going forward for the next 6-7 years. What it will do for the fans, the city, for the attendance, for the morale of every single person associated with the team fan or otherwise. Then you can us your physcic abilities to tell us what our record would be for the next 6 years with two guys like that.

[The Maestro]

If he didn't care why would he pay 3M out of his pocket to get Vlad to sign. AM was going to stick with the 5M offer take it or leave it. I won't be surprised if PA shells out a lot the next few years because he cares to have a winner in his life time. And as far as spending making a difference, if we had had Tea-bag and CC playing for us this year, instead of DLee and Bergesen, we'd still be just barely .500. Only the payroll would be 120M.

If he really cared, he wouldn't have allowed AM to waste that money on Vlad to begin with and would have invested more into the amateur draft and internationally the past 10 years. I better state IMO so my statement isn't corrected.

[jgjbanker]

I believe we need to attempt to lock up Jones for the next 4-5 years. I think we all can say that Jones is a valuable piece to any team, the O's especially. Also, I think we can all agree that he still has some upside to him.

Players who are bordering on going from good to great, like Jones is, who actually WANT to stay and play here, you need to do that deal as long as it can make sense for BOTH the player and the team. If this was the first season Jones had been performing at this level I would be hesistant, but he has but together a couple of nice years that any team would take, let alone take while knowing there is still upside there.

We need to move players that we can get the most value for while balancing having some "foundational" pieces in place that remain with the team through the rebuilding. As it comes to building around those foundational pieces, I think we can all agree the only way we are going to do that is to (1)draft AND develop better, (2)become a bigger player in the international market, and (3)WAY OVERPAY to get top FAs here until we have a team on the field that will draw FAs here to be a winner.

[JTrea81]

I just want to know from all those who want to trade Jones, what team is there that:

1. Wants him?

2. Has a stud ML ready CF prospect to trade back to us?

I don't see a team that qualifies in both of those categories.

I doubt we get one for Hardy or Guthrie as each of those players is a rent-a-player of some sorts, as Guts is a FA after 2012 and Hardy is after 2011.

Stud position players are the most valuable commodity and a stud CF prospect is a rarity, which is why even though Jones may not develop fully, we know what we have with him now and he's one of the best offensive CFers in the American League and he cares more about winning than anybody else in that locker room.

We need to build around him, not deal him.

[btdart20]

Jones is as much of a 'face of the franchise' as Markakis at this point. He's not going anywhere unless some team gives up the farm.

[El Gordo]

I don't think we have to get a CF back in a trade for Jones. We need SP short term and long term more than we need 2 years of Jones. Teams that come to mind that might have interest are: KC, Cubs, Yankees, Philies(LF) Braves, Chisox, and possibly the Padres(San Diego homeboy)

[CA-ORIOLE]

I just want to know from all those who want to trade Jones, what team is there that:

1. Wants him?

2. Has a stud ML ready CF prospect to trade back to us?

I don't see a team that qualifies in both of those categories.

I doubt we get one for Hardy or Guthrie as each of those players is a rent-a-player of some sorts, as Guts is a FA after 2012 and Hardy is after 2011.

Stud position players are the most valuable commodity and a stud CF prospect is a rarity, which is why even though Jones may not develop fully, we know what we have with him now and he's one of the best offensive CFers in the American League and he cares more about winning than anybody else in that locker room.

We need to build around him, not deal him.

I don't see us needing a CF back in return either. I'd probably be focused more on a TOR starter and some residual. I also think Jones would be a good fit as a corner OF for some teams as well. Seams there would be lots of teams, contender and non contenders, with interest. Rangers, Tigers, White Sox, Mets, Brewers, Blue Jays, Padres, Giants, Royals etc. off the top of my head. Lots of others I am sure.