John Hart the next O's GM?

[Frobby]

Besides blind hope, why would anyone think that anyone would come to THIS organization and have MORE success than they had in a better environment?

If Hart had never been the Cleveland GM, and he was basing his opinion entirely on Texas, your question would be logical. The short answer is, Hart had one success and one failure, and Malike is triangulating between the two.

I have spent some time today studying the drafts of the teams Hart headed. In 14 years as a GM, his teams drafted 13 players who accumulated 5+ WAR, and the average annual yield from these players was 13-14 WAR per draft year. In that same span, the Orioles drafted 7 players who accumulated 5+ WAR, and the average annual yield from these players was 8-9 WAR per draft year. Just to pick one random good team, the Braves drafted 11 players with 5+ WAR and the annual yield was 10-11 WAR. So, I certainly think you'd say that Hart's teams drafted pretty well, by and large. His team selected more impact players in Cleveland (11 in 10 years) than they did in Texas (2 in 4 years), but the two that Texas selected were very good -- John Danks and Ian Kinsler (Danks subsequently was traded away after Hart left the GM job). Elvis Andrus also was signed on Hart's watch. Overall, I think you'd say that Hart did a good job building a scouting organization in both stops.

[sangar]

In 2001, the year before Hart took over, the Rangers had a payroll of ~47M and a record of 73 - 89.

In 2002, Hart's first year, the Rangers had a payroll of ~105M and a record of 72 - 90.

[Frobby]

In 2001, the year before Hart took over, the Rangers had a payroll of ~47M and a record of 73 - 89.

In 2002, Hart's first year, the Rangers had a payroll of ~105M and a record of 72 - 90.

I don't know where you are getting that. BB-ref says Texas had an $88 mm payroll the year before Hart arrived.

[sangar]

I don't know where you are getting that. BB-ref says Texas had an $88 mm payroll the year before Hart arrived.

Cot's. That's a pretty wide discrepancy. I've always relied on Cot's for payroll info.

[TonySoprano]

Texas' payroll in 2001 was $88,633,500. In 2002, it was $105,726,122

ETA, In 2001, their top 5 players alone made more than $53.7M

Alex Rodriguez $22,000,000

Rafael Palmeiro $9,000,000

Ivan Rodriguez $8,200,000

Kenny Rogers $7,500,000

Darren Oliver $7,000,000

[sangar]

I didn't think it sounded right that Texas would have nearly half of it's payroll tied up in one player.

[ShaneDawg85]

Exactly right. Besides...

I'm not sure how accurate it is to say that John Hart built those Cleveland teams - at the very least we shouldn't pretend he did it by himself. I don't know how much you know about Hart but one of the reasons he ended up in Cleveland was former Orioles GM Hank Peters.

Peters had been unceremoniously dumped by EBW and then ended up in Cleveland a very short time later. Among the people Peters took with him to Cleveland was Dan O'Dowd, with John Hart being brought on board two years later. It should also be noted that Peters played a key role in getting Mark Shapiro to Cleveland. I'd say Peters had a pretty good eye for front office talent. This is pure speculation, but maybe it was Peters who taught Hart how to groom his employees. Peters served as Cleveland President and GM from 1987 to 1992 with Hart officially replacing him as GM following the 1991 season.

So who should get credit for building those very good Cleveland teams? Here are some of their key players from that run and when they joined the organization.

Acquired before Peters reign:

Albert Belle - drafted in 1987

Acquired while Peters was GM:

Sandy Alomar - acquired with Carlos Baerga in 1989

Carlos Baerga - see above

Jim Thome - drafted in 1989

Manny Ramirez - drafted in 1991

Charles Nagy - Drafted in 1988

Julian Tavarez - signed as amateur FA in 1990

Acquired while Hart was GM:

Paul Sorrento - by trade with Minnesota in March 1992

Omar Vizquel - by trade with Seattle in December 1993. They traded Fermin (who had been acquired by Peters in a 1989 trade) to get Vizquel

Kenny Lofton - acquired by trade 2 months after Hart replaced Peters

Eddie Murray - acquired by trade during 1994 season

Dennis Martinez - signed as FA in December 1993

Jose Mesa - by trade with Baltimore in July 1992

Orel Hershiser - signed as FA in April 1995

So Hart acquired more players who played key roles, but it shouldn't take too much effort to prove that Alomar, Baerga, Thome, Ramirez, and Nagy cumulatively provided more value to those teams than the players acquired by Hart. Hart does obviously get credit for adding the necessary pieces to take them to the next level (even though they never won a WS under him).

Either way, Hart inherited quite a bit from Hank Peters. It would be a mistake to pretend otherwise.

Hmm, so Hart seemed to make good trades, and keep his own in house. Sounds a little like Andy MacPhail.:scratchchinhmm:

[weams]

Go, Thad! Fingers crossed. The more I think about it, the more I think an arrangement of Hart as President and Thad as GM would be perfect. Thad trying to wrestle with Peter/Buck for influence would be a disaster - having an old, trusted guy like Hart as a buffer between Levine and Peter/Buck could be perfect... like the Larry Lucchino/Theo Epstein model that worked so well in Boston. A guy can dream. I'm concerned though that John Angelos would veto such a move, as a threat to his eventual sovereignty.

Roch says no chance at two. Only one hire for the Front Office. No President/GM tandem.

[Stotle]

Elvis Andrus also was signed on Hart's watch.

Andrus was signed while Hart was in charge in Texas, but he was signed by Atlanta international scouts Julian Perez and Rolando Petit.

Texas traded for him in 2007 as part of the Teixeira deal.

[Frobby]

Andrus was signed while Hart was in charge in Texas, but he was signed by Atlanta international scouts Julian Perez and Rolando Petit.

Texas traded for him in 2007 as part of the Teixeira deal.

Ah, you are right. I looked to see when Andrus signed, but overlooked who signed him!

[Bradysburns]

Roch says no chance at two. Only one hire for the Front Office. No President/GM tandem.

Hmm. Well, Weams, at least they have a game plan, from what you're saying. It's just very hard for me to imagine how a trio of Angelos, Buck and a youngster like DiPoto, LaCava or Levine would actually work. At the end of the day, someone needs to be "the decider," so to speak. If that's not the GM, with PA chiming in only on major decisions, then the whole thing is an exercise in futility. I guess I'd rather see Hart, in a case like that, than a systematically emasculated "young gun," if that is the choice.

[Birds08]

Not going to worry too much right now. Considering we are still scheduling interviews with Watson coming in on Wednesday, I have trouble believing a decision has been made.

[scOtt]

Roch says no chance at two. Only one hire for the Front Office. No President/GM tandem.

I love Roch... and take his stuff with only a half a grain of salt... but he's been dead wrong a lot of times.

[Going Underground]

I think the O's interview Levine after the World Series ends. That should be about it. i still think Dipoto is the number one choice. I don't think Hart gets hired but if he does he could groom Klentak. The O's think he is not ready yet. The process goes on and is fluid. People should have bet me by Columbus Day the O's would have a GM. j/k. I think Novemer 1st is a good day.

[Going Underground]

I love Roch... and take his stuff with only a half a grain of salt... but he's been dead wrong a lot of times.

Roch hears things like everyone else. Things change alot in a short period of time. Most baseball writers get the rumors wrong alot.