Any obligation to keep the team respectable?

[PaulFolk]

Here's a question.

El Gordo...Sports Guy...why don't you two just put each other on Ignore? Your repeated spats are tiresome, and they waste valuable board space. Seems like an obvious solution to me.

In any case, let's get this thread back on track.

[Sports Guy]

Here's a question.

El Gordo...Sports Guy...why don't you two just put each other on Ignore? Your repeated spats are tiresome, and they waste valuable board space. Seems like an obvious solution to me.

In any case, let's get this thread back on track.

I tried it..He still trolled and obsessed over me.

Not sure why he is even allowed to troll but that's a different story i guess.

[tennOsfan]

I don't have a problem with keeping few guys like Walker, Millar, etc., around for 2008. I wouldn't do it SOLELY to achieve a decent record this year, but I wouldn't just dump any of them for the sake of doing it.

I doubt we get anything near a premium prospect for any of those players. Those guys are all being paid fair market value for their services, based on their contracts being negotiated through the free agency process. I would imagine we'd get a better trade next summer from contenders needing to fill holes down the stretch (free agency isn't available in July to fill a hole; right now it is, thus their trade value is lessened; a fine example of that is Trachsel going unwanted most of last winter and later fetching a decent young player in Moore).

In contrast, Bedard and Roberts are due monies less than what you'd have to pay for a comparable free agent. And they're locked into that for a couple of years. Thus they command a premium NOW. Tejada arguably is similar since his pay is based on a contract signed four years ago that is now something of a bargain.

To sum up this garbled mass of thoughts, I don't think McPhail is being inconsistent by jettisoning some vets while keeping others. I think he's evaluating the hand he's got, and going from there.

[PaulFolk]

I tried it..He still trolled and obsessed over me.

Not sure why he is even allowed to troll but that's a different story i guess.

I'd suggest you try it again. You too, El Gordo. If not, we'll have to start handing out suspensions if you can't act civilly towards each other.

OK, now to get back on track.

I'm a bit confused about the thread title. What do you mean, "keep" the team respectable?

[El Gordo]

I'd suggest you try it again. You too, El Gordo. If not, we'll have to start handing out suspensions if you can't act civilly towards each other.

OK, now to get back on track.

I'm a bit confused about the thread title. What do you mean, "keep" the team respectable?

I'm assuming your joking about "keep", but perhaps an effort should be made to avoid an entire season like the last 6 week of the previous one. I doubt that with all the trades, we will be able to purge the team of every player over 25 so perhaps we might want to keep the ones who would be good role models, clubhouse guys etc. In that case I would rather see Walker and Bradford stay as opposed to guys like Huff, Payton, or even Melmo.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm assuming your joking about "keep", but perhaps an effort should be made to avoid an entire season like the last 6 week of the previous one. I doubt that with all the trades, we will be able to purge the team of every player over 25 so perhaps we might want to keep the ones who would be good role models, clubhouse guys etc. In that case I would rather see Walker and Bradford stay as opposed to guys like Huff, Payton, or even Melmo.

The problem is, Bradford and Walker have trade value. Huff, Payton and Mora don't.

[RShack]

The problem is, Bradford and Walker have trade value. Huff, Payton and Mora don't.

Just because somebody has trade value, that does not in any way dictate that you're somehow supposed to trade them. People who are pretty good have trade value, and we need to have some of those guys...

[El Gordo]

The problem is, Bradford and Walker have trade value. Huff, Payton and Mora don't.

I think they will have more at the deadline, but of course if we can get value for them now trade them.

[Mackus]

Just because somebody has trade value, that does not in any way dictate that you're somehow supposed to trade them. People who are pretty good have trade value, and we need to have some of those guys...

Anybody who isn't likely to be here and productive in 2010 should be traded.

Walker and Bradford fit into this category.

I have no problems with keeping them until the deadline because they'll be more valuable then. Or with keeping them if offers for them aren't that great. But if we keep them because we think we "need" them in the bullpen either of the next two years, it will be a mistake.

[NewMarketSean]

Just because somebody has trade value, that does not in any way dictate that you're somehow supposed to trade them. People who are pretty good have trade value, and we need to have some of those guys...

Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on what your goals and values are for the next 2 years. Maybe AM wants to start over in every sense of the word and doesn't value keeping Bradford and Walker because they will be wasted on a losing team. Maybe he values the players they would bring back in a trade. Maybe he wants B&W to help out the young rotation. Who knows. But "keeping guys because we need them" doesn't make much sense to me. If we were looking to compete in 2008, we need them. Otherwise, they are expendable. Again, doesn't mean they will be traded, but doesn't mean they should be untouchable either.

[NewMarketSean]

I think they will have more at the deadline, but of course if we can get value for them now trade them.

Huff could be moved but we'd have to pay some of his contract. That said I would keep him because I think he could bounce back and be valuable to the team down the road whether that is in a trade or something else.

Mora has been rumored to be part of trade talks so that leads me to believe we could move him to a team like Philly if he waives his NTC.

Payton is going to have to be part of a larger deal where we take back someone else's bad contract too. So I would just cut Payton. He serves no purpose to the O's in 2008 if the trades we're thinking will happen, happen. And of all these players, he is the one who will most likely keep declining. Plus he's got some attitude issues.

[RShack]

Anybody who isn't likely to be here and productive in 2010 should be traded. Walker and Bradford fit into this category.

It's not that black-and-white. It depends on their value to the team, given it's goals, vs. their value in the market. It's not an automatic decision, it's a judgment call. For guys who are worth a ton now but won't be in a couple years, sure. But for guys who have "some value" now and also have "some value" to helping the rebuilding project get carried out, it's not automatic. Which is exactly why I don't expect AM to trade both of those guys unless either (a) they make a difference in some much bigger deal, or else (b) he can rob somebody for them.

Just the fact that they have value does not make it an open-and-shut decision unless you're going by some extreme ideology about this whole thing. I have no reason to believe that AM is an ideologue about this, I think he's a pragmatist. And, from a pragmatic perspective, it's good to have guys like them around, especially given the situation.

[RShack]

Maybe, maybe not.

Exactly. (See, sometimes NMS and I agree about something ;-)

[Mackus]

You don't have to be a good player to be able to teach young players how to go about their business professionally.

Walker and Bradford may be able to impart some amount of wisdom to younger players. Maybe not, none of us know. But if they can, then I certainly believe that there are other MLB relievers out there who could pass along the same information. Go sign those guys for $1M contracts and have them put up 4.50 ERAs in our bullpen the next two years and mentor our "kids". Trade Walker and Bradford and get back more talented "kids" to mentor.

If you want to say veterans in the bullpen are important because they provide insight and leadership vital to the development of young players, I won't agree wholeheartedly but I won't completely disagree or argue with you either. But if you say that Walker and Bradford specifically offer something that nobody else we could sign cheaply could, then I disagree.

[Sports Guy]

As others have already said "keep the team respectable" is a pretty ironic line. In trying to keep the team respectable the last 4-5 years, they have become downright unrespectable. Another funny thing. The blow it up crowd started as a noisy minority and has grown to become pretty much the majority around here. Now the GM is even on board. There are still a few who need to be dragged, kicking and screaming, but eventually they'll be on board as well, because most of them always say, "McPhail (or insert any Oriole GM) knows more than us. Whatever he does is probably the right thing." Blow it up, isn't exactly the same for everyone, but hell, if trading BRob, Miggy, and Bedard ain't blowing it up, than I don't know what is. If trading Bradford & Walker at the deadline brings back the most value, and IMO, that's the likely case, then so be it. However, in no way, do I hold onto these guys, because it makes us more respectable in some way. If you can get good prospects for them now, do it!!!!!!!

It doesn't happen often but this is very well said.