Duquette and the Pennant: This Time It's Personal

[VeveJones007]

Every year I hear people talk about not wanting to "trade the future" for a win now approach. Guess what, that "future" we never traded away has seen us play under .500 ball for 14 straight years. Some Orioles fans have become so reluctant to part with the "future" that they get upset when we trade away C-type prospects for guys who can help us this year (Evelnad, Teagrden, Thome) even if the chances of those prospects turning this franchise around were slim to none. In the minors right now we have two untouchable pieces in Bundy and Machado, and probably two very reluctant (Hoes and Delmonico) pieces. At the major league level Wieters and Jones should be the only untouchables.

At the end of the day, I'm glad we finally have a GM who is willing to risk some of the "future" to win now. Obviously this has to be delicately because you don't want a ton of rentals, but it's time for the Orioles to show they can make a run and that they are players again. Even if we comes up short, and this is still a very flawed team, this will hopefully help this offseason when I expect Duquette to be very active on not only the free agency market, but the trade market.

Last time I checked, the future is not producing very well whether it be recent draft picks (outside of out untouchables) or the Calvary. That's not to say we don't have some players that can be part of a playoff team here in Baltimore, but it does mean I'm going to support Duquette if he moves some it in order to acquire players that will help the Orioles break 14-years of suckitude.

Let's make a run this year, and then show the players who can be part of a long-term core the money.

I'm in agreement. Find out what you can get for Schoop/Matusz/Arrieta/Avery/Hoes/Bridwell/Delmonico/etc. I'll trust DD to pull the trigger on a long-term answer if he can get it. I doubt he gives up a couple of those guys for a rental.

[Lucky Jim]

Every year I hear people talk about not wanting to "trade the future" for a win now approach. Guess what, that "future" we never traded away has seen us play under .500 ball for 14 straight years. Some Orioles fans have become so reluctant to part with the "future" that they get upset when we trade away C-type prospects for guys who can help us this year (Evelnad, Teagrden, Thome) even if the chances of those prospects turning this franchise around were slim to none. In the minors right now we have two untouchable pieces in Bundy and Machado, and probably three very reluctant (Hoes, Schoop and Delmonico) pieces. At the major league level Wieters and Jones should be the only untouchables.

At the end of the day, I'm glad we finally have a GM who is willing to risk some of the "future" to win now. Obviously this has to be delicately because you don't want a ton of rentals, but it's time for the Orioles to show they can make a run and that they are players again. Even if we comes up short, and this is still a very flawed team, this will hopefully help this offseason when I expect Duquette to be very active on not only the free agency market, but the trade market.

Last time I checked, the future is not producing very well whether it be recent draft picks (outside of out untouchables) or the Calvary. That's not to say we don't have some players that can be part of a playoff team here in Baltimore, but it does mean I'm going to support Duquette if he moves some it in order to acquire players that will help the Orioles break 14-years of suckitude.

Let's make a run this year, and then show the players who can be part of a long-term core the money.

You cna probably make a case for Schoop as "very reluctant", but I agree with you. Our system has not shown it can get players to the majors consistently. Simply put, this way isn't working for us and we need to consider a different avenue.

I think there's plenty of room for reasonable disagreement about the merits of "going for it" this year. The question posed was a little different, though - should Duquette's desire for personal redemption be a factor in the moves he makes?

Frobby's not wrong - it's idle chit-chat and speculation, though it's based on Roch's statement that this is obviously a factor. I'm just curious how folks feel about that part of it.

[Prayin4Reign]

The title of this thread sounds like a film...maybe a part 3 or part 4. I don't equate Duquette with Bruce Willis, but at this moment I am.

[VeveJones007]

I think there's plenty of room for reasonable disagreement about the merits of "going for it" this year. The question posed was a little different, though - should Duquette's desire for personal redemption be a factor in the moves he makes?

Frobby's not wrong - it's idle chit-chat and speculation, though it's based on Roch's statement that this is obviously a factor. I'm just curious how folks feel about that part of it.

I think DD's desire for redemption is to win. I don't believe he will do things that will seriously impact the organization's long-term plans.

[CA-ORIOLE]

You cna probably make a case for Schoop as "very reluctant", but I agree with you. Our system has not shown it can get players to the majors consistently. Simply put, this way isn't working for us and we need to consider a different avenue.

Yep, and I think DD is in the process of re-shaping that system. The exisiting parts aren't necessarily integral to the new machine.

[Lucky Jim]

Yep, and I think DD is in the process of re-shaping that system. The exisiting parts aren't necessarily integral to the new machine.

Well, then. See ya Bundy and Machado.

[Tony-OH]

I think there's plenty of room for reasonable disagreement about the merits of "going for it" this year. The question posed was a little different, though - should Duquette's desire for personal redemption be a factor in the moves he makes?

Frobby's not wrong - it's idle chit-chat and speculation, though it's based on Roch's statement that this is obviously a factor. I'm just curious how folks feel about that part of it.

I honestly don't care what motivates Duquette, I just think it's time to start trying to go for it, even if you come up short. We've held onto guys for too long, long past the time they have good value in the hopes they will turn the franchise around. Instead, we've finished in last place as our Calvary puts up 6+ ERA in the major leagues. this is why I supported Duquette when he traded away those C-type prospects for role guys that could help the team this year. I don't care if Eveland will be around in three years of not, if he can help this year it's still better than hoping two C-type prospects can become role players themselves.

I'm in no rush to see Hoes, Schoop, Avery, Arrieta, Matusz, Britton or Tillman moved, but I fully support moving some combination of them in order to get an impact player for the rest of the year. We may not be able to resign Greinke before he becomes a free agent, but that doesn't mean he might not have enjoyed his time here enpugh to resign this offseason. If not, if Greinkie helps this team make the playoffs, he'll be worth what we gave up because maybe he just made the Orioles an up and coming team that some free agents will actually consider instead of the afterthought we've been over the last 14 years.

[sangar]

For what it's worth, a lot of the great men throughout history, from Julius Caesar to George Patton, were motivated by self promotion and personal glory. While it is selfish, it is not inherently a bad thing.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think there's plenty of room for reasonable disagreement about the merits of "going for it" this year. The question posed was a little different, though - should Duquette's desire for personal redemption be a factor in the moves he makes?

Frobby's not wrong - it's idle chit-chat and speculation, though it's based on Roch's statement that this is obviously a factor. I'm just curious how folks feel about that part of it.

Rochs' opinion aside, I would hope that DD can put aside any past personal personal affronts (perceived or otherwise) and make rational decisions. I expect he can and will do that based on what he has done to date. I also expect he will take more risk that a lot on here are used to (or will accept). As, I haven't had any real issues with what he's done (while others seem to be completely whacked about some of his moves), I'd prefer to wait and see. Maybe DD will do something I strongly disagree with. He just hasn't done it yet.

[Lucky Jim]

For what it's worth, a lot of the great men throughout history, from Julius Caesar to George Patton, were motivated by self promotion and personal glory. While it is selfish, it is not inherently a bad thing.

Call me Brute.

[CA-ORIOLE]

For what it's worth, a lot of the great men throughout history, from Julius Caesar to George Patton, were motivated by self promotion and personal glory. While it is selfish, it is not inherently a bad thing.

Exaclty, as long as we're talking about George Patton and not General Custer, we are probably ok.

[VeveJones007]

I honestly don't care what motivates Duquette, I just think it's time to start trying to go for it, even if you come up short. We've held onto guys for too long, long past the time they have good value in the hopes they will turn the franchise around. Instead, we've finished in last place as our Calvary puts up 6+ ERA in the major leagues. this is why I supported Duquette when he traded away those C-type prospects for role guys that could help the team this year. I don't care if Eveland will be around in three years of not, if he can help this year it's still better than hoping two C-type prospects can become role players themselves.

I'm in no rush to see Hoes, Schoop, Avery, Arrieta, Matusz, Britton or Tillman moved, but I fully support moving some combination of them in order to get an impact player for the rest of the year. We may not be able to resign Greinke before he becomes a free agent, but that doesn't mean he might not have enjoyed his time here enpugh to resign this offseason. If not, if Greinke helps this team make the playoffs, he'll be worth what we gave up because maybe he just made the Orioles an up and coming team that some free agents will actually consider instead of the afterthought we've been over the last 14 years.

I definitely would be willing to move a few of them, but I would want an extension to get done even if it was above market.

[Lucky Jim]

Exaclty, as long as we're tallking about George Patton and not General Custer, we are probably ok.

I guess we'll find out which he is after they've counted the bodies.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I guess we'll find out which he is after they've counted the bodies.

Ole, blood and guts ran up some body counts himself. As they used to say, it wasn't his blood.

[MrOrange82]

I honestly don't care what motivates Duquette, I just think it's time to start trying to go for it, even if you come up short. We've held onto guys for too long, long past the time they have good value in the hopes they will turn the franchise around. Instead, we've finished in last place as our Calvary puts up 6+ ERA in the major leagues. this is why I supported Duquette when he traded away those C-type prospects for role guys that could help the team this year. I don't care if Eveland will be around in three years of not, if he can help this year it's still better than hoping two C-type prospects can become role players themselves.

I'm in no rush to see Hoes, Schoop, Avery, Arrieta, Matusz, Britton or Tillman moved, but I fully support moving some combination of them in order to get an impact player for the rest of the year. We may not be able to resign Greinke before he becomes a free agent, but that doesn't mean he might not have enjoyed his time here enpugh to resign this offseason. If not, if Greinkie helps this team make the playoffs, he'll be worth what we gave up because maybe he just made the Orioles an up and coming team that some free agents will actually consider instead of the afterthought we've been over the last 14 years.

The entire "going for it" scenario raises alarm bells for me. The team obviously has a ton of holes...in every aspect of the game. It'd be possible to kill multiple birds with single-stones by acquiring offensive players who can both hit and play defense, but, then again, how many stones do the O's really have to throw? Furthermore, where was this ambition during the winter months? The O's were outbid for Fielder (not that I agree with, or would have supported, the contract given to him by Detroit), and the only trade "of consequence" the team made was sending Guthrie to Colorado. Chen was a good...and extremely "cheap," minimally-contested signing. And then there were the Nick Johnson, Matt Antonelli, etc.-type acquisitions. Unless we're counting the Betemit signing as a signal that DD was planning to go all-out in 2012.

These rumors (and their possible bases in "fact") feel very knee-jerk and hastily conceived. I'm not looking to rebuild forever...but I'm also not eager to see the GM cut the red wire and cross his fingers, either.