Gold Glove announcement tonight...scouts perspective ( Update - All 3 Orioles win)

[Moose Milligan]

I watched the top 10 web gems of 2012 they had on there. Manny's fake and throw to third wasn't in there...

I don't think it's on there because it's not a flashy, diving grab. It's an incredible, heads up play that a true fans would know the significance of....but to water everything down for the common viewer, they're going to put up the most outrageous, spectacular diving plays, grabs, DP turns, etc.

[Mondo Trasho]

Were they all plays from GG winners? That's the only reason that play shouldn't make it. But Hardy was involved so who knows.

Nope. Mike Trout's rob of Hardy was number 1...

[Mondo Trasho]

I don't think it's on there because it's not a flashy, diving grab. It's an incredible, heads up play that a true fans would know the significance of....but to water everything down for the common viewer, they're going to put up the most outrageous, spectacular diving plays, grabs, DP turns, etc.

I dunno, they had a barehanded throw by Ian Desmond on there. Impressive, but he didn't dive for it just barehanded it and threw it to first.

[ShaneDawg85]

I felt he was very good in center this year...just not Trout good. Like you, I also don't understand some of the Jones hate around here. Some people are clearly projecting prejudices onto him.

Oh this argument again. I'm not saying some people haven't, or won't. But, people are hard on Jones because, first of all, it's their right as fans to be critical of whatever player they choose, for whatever reason they choose, and sometimes that's going to rub people the wrong way. That's just the reality of things and people are free to disagree with it. But, some people are critical of Adam Jones because they see the talent, they see what he can do, but his production in their eyes has not always matched up to it. Some have just blindly argued it, others have used numbers to back it up. I greatly respect those that can use numbers to argue he's not that great of a defensive player, because many numbers bear that out. Just the same as you can argue some people constantly run him down, others have constantly built him up as infallible, as though he can't do wrong.

Neither extreme is true, but that doesn't mean people don't have a right to be critical of him, and if they are they're "projecting prejudices onto him." People have criticized Matt Wieters, heck, we have at least one "Wieters is a bust/will never match the hype" thread a month it seems. Just look at the board now, there's been an ongoing thread about it. People have criticized Nick Markakis for a lot of the same reasons we've slagged on Adam Jones: not as good defensively as he seems, does he really care, does the contract match the production, etc. Are we clearly projecting prejudices onto those guys, too? People have a right to say what they want about whatever player they want, provided they do it sensibly and responsibly. Not everyone does, but just because we harp on one player more than another does not mean we're projecting prejudices or anything else relative to someone else. Plenty of players past, present, and future, have gotten far worse criticisms than Adam Jones has, or will.

[mcinww0]

Dont get me wrong, Im thrilled for AJ and the team getting the sweep in general, but still shocked Trout missed it. Not only is he probably a better defender but he was a better hitter and got far more national media coverage in 2012. I know the GG has its prejudices but I thought those would favor Trout.

[Easternshoreguy2]

I am happy for all three and I can see the argument about Jones about some people loving him/hating him or thinking he does/does not deserve a GG but the fact is the ASG winners are favorites and some probably should not be there just like the GG awards so deal with it it happens. Production from our players and being critical on them is the right of the fan but my opinion is just win and I do not care how they look because we will never be the best looking defensive team and we wont always be the worst just get the W.

[harp6]

That's not necessarily true. If you extrapolate the PO totals for qualified AL center fielders, the only person who comes close to Jones's PO totals over 162 games is Denard Span (and he ties Jones to the closest whole number at 439).

And Span also happens to be only AL CFer with a higher range factor than Jones. The fact that he only played 128 games probably hurt his chances for the GG.

I agree. There was a lack of research to claim that Jones was the leader in PO because he played 162 games. If you calculate the PO/innings played. Span was #1 and Jones was #2 in all of ML baseball.

[Easternshoreguy2]

Dont get me wrong, Im thrilled for AJ and the team getting the sweep in general, but still shocked Trout missed it. Not only is he probably a better defender but he was a better hitter and got far more national media coverage in 2012. I know the GG has its prejudices but I thought those would favor Trout.

Your probably right but if Trout would have won then you have to hear the race card IMO (not from us but I am sure someone would try to use it). However, that being said does make it a good/bad reason to give it to him but just giving a POV.

I would have been fine if the voting had ended either way.

[byrdz]

surprise surprise Keith Law doesnt believe any orioles deserved it...

@keithlaw: AL Gold Glove winner at short: Hardy. I would have had him second behind Ryan, but Hardy is very good, and Ryan didn't hit enough to win.

@keithlaw: Gold Gloves at Catcher: Matt Wieters and Yadier Molina. Molina is obvious. Salvador Perez would have been my AL choice.

@keithlaw: AL Gold Glove OFs: Reddick , Jones, & Gordon. Jones was below average in UZR/dRS. Trout's absence is glaring. Also Jennings > Gordon for me.

Wouldn't be the first time Law was wrong.

[Orange_Crush]

I'm happy for all three, but thrilled for JJ. If you think about it, we just won GG's at the three most important defensive positions on the field. When Duquette said last winter that what he liked about our team was we were strong up the middle, he wasn't kidding around.

True but watching Jones's game for a Centerfielder he has holes. Sure nice award but I would be lying if i didn't say watching him on D I didn't get nervous.

[Orange_Crush]

surprise surprise Keith Law doesnt believe any orioles deserved it...

@keithlaw: AL Gold Glove winner at short: Hardy. I would have had him second behind Ryan, but Hardy is very good, and Ryan didn't hit enough to win.

@keithlaw: Gold Gloves at Catcher: Matt Wieters and Yadier Molina. Molina is obvious. Salvador Perez would have been my AL choice.

@keithlaw: AL Gold Glove OFs: Reddick , Jones, & Gordon. Jones was below average in UZR/dRS. Trout's absence is glaring. Also Jennings > Gordon for me.

Law is right for 2 of the 3 really. Hardy could go either way. Wrong on Wieters but right on Jones.

[VeveJones007]

Oh this argument again. I'm not saying some people haven't, or won't. But, people are hard on Jones because, first of all, it's their right as fans to be critical of whatever player they choose, for whatever reason they choose, and sometimes that's going to rub people the wrong way. That's just the reality of things and people are free to disagree with it. But, some people are critical of Adam Jones because they see the talent, they see what he can do, but his production in their eyes has not always matched up to it. Some have just blindly argued it, others have used numbers to back it up. I greatly respect those that can use numbers to argue he's not that great of a defensive player, because many numbers bear that out. Just the same as you can argue some people constantly run him down, others have constantly built him up as infallible, as though he can't do wrong.

Neither extreme is true, but that doesn't mean people don't have a right to be critical of him, and if they are they're "projecting prejudices onto him." People have criticized Matt Wieters, heck, we have at least one "Wieters is a bust/will never match the hype" thread a month it seems. Just look at the board now, there's been an ongoing thread about it. People have criticized Nick Markakis for a lot of the same reasons we've slagged on Adam Jones: not as good defensively as he seems, does he really care, does the contract match the production, etc. Are we clearly projecting prejudices onto those guys, too? People have a right to say what they want about whatever player they want, provided they do it sensibly and responsibly. Not everyone does, but just because we harp on one player more than another does not mean we're projecting prejudices or anything else relative to someone else. Plenty of players past, present, and future, have gotten far worse criticisms than Adam Jones has, or will.

Nice rant, especially when I wasn't referring to you. I very clearly said "some people" and you even bolded it, so I assume you read it.

When people just bad-mouth Adam about "blowing bubbles" and "trying to look cool", I know what they're insinuating. Do you?

[Dark Helmet]

Law is right for 2 of the 3 really. Hardy could go either way. Wrong on Wieters but right on Jones.

Yah well, Hardy shouldve had it last year hands down. So, its poetic justice. For him to say Wieters wasnt the best defensive catcher, just shows his anti-oriole bias. As for Jones, sometimes its about perception. I doubt Jeter will be giving back his gg, though I doubt he should have won any.

[Dark Helmet]

Nice rant, especially when I wasn't referring to you. I very clearly said "some people" and you even bolded it, so I assume you read it.

When people just bad-mouth Adam about "blowing bubbles" and "trying to look cool", I know what they're insinuating. Do you?

Most of the time, I assume there saying he needs to focus more on the ball, rather than trying to look flashy doing it.

[Don Quixote]

Strong up the middle

At last Hardy gets his due

Golden trifecta