Notes from the Post!

[Boca Bird]

Surely you would agree that Soriano had a huge advantage over Roberts with

Vidro/Johnson/Zimmerman right behind him compared to the typical 2/3/4 in the O's lineup this past year.

Not to mention somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 more plate appearances for Soriano.

Why would I say that ? The stats don't lie. The O's were 17th in runs scored and the NAts were 24th:confused:

A leadoff hitter for a team that was 17th in scoring should finish ahead of the guy that was 24th in scoring? Yet, he finsihed 35 runs behind. Let me guess, a fluke right ?

[geschinger]

Why would I say that ? The stats don't lie. The O's were 17th in runs scored and the NAts were 24th:confused:

A leadoff hitter for a team that was 17th in scoring should finish ahead of the guy that was 24th in scoring? Yet, he finsihed 35 runs behind. Let me guess, a fluke right ?

Maybe you should use a stat that makes sense? Why are you using the overall team output? If a team gets significantly more production out of the bottom half of their lineup other than a few extra plate appearances, how does that help the leadoff man score more runs?

[Boca Bird]

Maybe you should use a stat that makes sense? Why are you using the overall team output? If a team gets significantly more production out of the bottom half of their lineup other than a few extra plate appearances, how does that help the leadoff man score more runs?

Let me guess, the only stats that makes sense are OBP ever since you read moneyball, right ?

Then again, Why are you asking me? It was NovaO's premise that Soriano scored more runs becuase of his teammates. You seemed to agree:confused:

[geschinger]

Let me guess, the only stats that makes sense are OBP ever since you read moneyball, right ?

Then again, Why are you asking me? It was NovaO's premise that Soriano scored more runs becuase of his teammates. You seemed to agree:confused:

I do agree. The teammates in the lineup that actually have a chance to drive him in, i.e. the guys hitting directly behind him determine in large part how many runs the leadoff guy will score. Compare the stats of the guys directly behind Soriano and directly behind Roberts and it'll be advantage Soriano.

Teammates hitting in the top half of the order can have a huge impact on how many runs the leadoff hitter scores. Someone hitting 7, 8 or 9 has no impact on how many runs he scores with the exception of maybe generating a few extra plate appearances by making fewer outs.

[ELC]

Why would I say that ? The stats don't lie. The O's were 17th in runs scored and the NAts were 24th:confused:

A leadoff hitter for a team that was 17th in scoring should finish ahead of the guy that was 24th in scoring? Yet, he finsihed 35 runs behind. Let me guess, a fluke right ?

Holy crap dude, Soriano isn't relying on players at the bottom of the order that were offensive black holes like Royce Clayton, Brian Schnieder, Marlon Byrd, Jose Guillen, etc. to drive him in. That would be Vidro, Zimmerman, and Johnson's job. And those three all had excellent years, thus Soriano's high runs scored total. Brian Roberts had 100 less AB's, 36 less homers, and was backed up by the likes of Brandon Fahey and Melvin Mora all year. Of course Brob isn’t going to score nearly as many runs…this isn't rocket science.

For the record I would be very excited if we signed Soriano, but you seem to have no idea how to construct a decent argument.

[Boca Bird]

I do agree. The teammates in the lineup that actually have a chance to drive him in, i.e. the guys hitting directly behind him determine in large part how many runs the leadoff guy will score. Compare the stats of the guys directly behind Soriano and directly behind Roberts and it'll be advantage Soriano.

Teammates hitting in the top half of the order can have a huge impact on how many runs the leadoff hitter scores. Someone hitting 7, 8 or 9 has no impact on how many runs he scores with the exception of maybe generating a few extra plate appearances by making fewer outs.

Why am I not suprised that you would ignore Soriano's best attributes? . I'm shocked

I keep forgetting. Soriano's a slouch, Angelos is prudent, and you'll never join tireless rebutters anonymous. Well, I'm on east coast time and I'm tired, but I'm willing to make a substantial bet that Soriano is a productive player for far longer than ARam. What shall the wager be ?

[Boca Bird]

Holy crap dude, Soriano isn't relying on players at the bottom of the order that were offensive black holes like Royce Clayton, Brian Schnieder, Marlon Byrd, Jose Guillen, etc. to drive him in. That would be Vidro, Zimmerman, and Johnson's job. And those three all had excellent years, thus Soriano's high runs scored total. Brian Roberts had 100 less AB's, 36 less homers, and was backed up by the likes of Brandon Fahey and Melvin Mora all year. Of course Brob isn’t going to score nearly as many runs…this isn't rocket science.

For the record I would be very excited if we signed Soriano, but you seem to have no idea how to construct a decent argument.

What the hell are you talking about? Soriano's runs don't count because he has more power than BROb?

I guess we can take those runs off the scoreboard for everytime the fonz homered

Wow, thanks for enlightening me. From now on, I'll run my comments past you for approval. I'll bet the HO's who've been debating me will breathe easier now that you have their back. LMAO

Why don't you save your comments about my the validity of my arguments for after (if) you've actually understood them.

[mweb]

I can't believe that runs scored are being used to convince people on Soriano.

I like Soriano, especially in LF, I like his speed and power duo, however, I wish he was more patient, more consistent, and not likely to command a contract through his age 36 season. I wouldn't be against signing him to a 5/75-80 deal, especially if we were going to make a few other strong moves, however, it will likely take at least 6/96 for us to get him, and I'm not willing to go that far.

[geschinger]

Why am I not suprised that you would ignore Soriano's best attributes? . I'm shocked

How did I do that?

Do your silence on the explanation mean you've come around to the conclusion that runs scored might have quite a bit to do with the guys hitting behind him rather than the offensive ranking as a whole?

Soriano's a slouch, Angelos is prudent, and you'll never join tireless rebutters anonymous.

Not something I'd say, but if that is what you believe...

[Boca Bird]

How did I do that?

Do your silence on the explanation mean you've come around to the conclusion that runs scored might have quite a bit to do with the guys hitting behind him rather than the offensive ranking as a whole?

Usually, my silence indicates that i've left or I'm tired. Puhleeze, I never run and hide....

I don't know. Are you saying Soriano's speed has nothing to do with him scoring ? Stealing 2nd has nothing to do with runs scored and neither does going 1st to 3rd on a single, right. SCoring from 2nd on a single is a fluke right???

You've never stepped on a baseball diamond beyond little league have you?

[NoVaO]

You keep crediting Soriano's teammates.Well, explain this:The Nats were 24th in MLB in runs scored, yet Soriano had 120 runs scored. Meanwhile, The o's were 17th in all of mlb in runs scored, yet their lead-off hitter only managed 85 runs. If its all supporting cast as you claim, then shouldn't the superior offensive team (in this case the Orioles) lead off hitter have scored more runs ? Soriano outscored BRob by 35 runs on a team that was ranked 8 places lower ??????

This is crazy...

1. Soriano had close to a 100 more plate appearances than Roberts

2. Soriano hit 36 more homeruns than Roberts (in fact there is your difference right there)

3. Soriano actually got on base more than Roberts

4. Perhaps other players on the Orioles scored runs at a better rate than Roberts did

I think the Nationals would be a more improved team if they didn't bat Soriano lead off...46 homeruns, 95 RBIs

You are also mixing in the AL and NL...the NL is going to score fewer runs because you have a pitcher that bats. After Zimmerman, the Nats line-up doesn't have any good hitters.

[Boca Bird]

This is crazy...

1. Soriano had close to a 100 more plate appearances than Roberts

2. Soriano hit 36 more homeruns than Roberts (in fact there is your difference right there)

3. Soriano actually got on base more than Roberts.

Wow, so Soriano is being penalized for being a better player

4. Perhaps other players on the Orioles scored runs at a better rate than Roberts did

I think the Nationals would be a more improved team if they didn't bat Soriano lead off...46 homeruns, 95 RBIs

You are also mixing in the AL and NL.... After Zimmerman, the Nats the NL is going to score fewer runs because you have a pitcher that batsline-up doesn't have any good hitters.

Earlier, you told me that the Nats were the reason Soriano scored so much. Are you coming around ?

[NoVaO]

Wow, so Soriano is being penalized for being a better player

I know that Soriano is a better player than Roberts. I'm just responding to your point about the Nats offense and O's offense.

I thought the comparison is being made to Ramirez. Ramirez is a better player than Soriano.

[NoVaO]

Wow, so Soriano is being penalized for being a better player

Earlier, you told me that the Nats were the reason Soriano scored so much. Are you coming around ?

Soriano had a great year last year. Instead of praising the amount of runs he scored, maybe you change your argument to say Soriano hit a lot of homeruns last year, his OBP improved from recent years, etc.

However, the number of runs he scored should have nothing to do with wanting to sign him because it is almost a totally team-dependent number.

[Lt Melmo]

This has gotten to the point where you guys don't even remember what you're arguing.