What is the matter with you people?

[SteveO]

Gausman. I ordinarily would want him to stay down until after the ASB, but we need help now, and I think he could give us at least a solid #4-5 level performance. Don't think the bat is nearly as important. With Valencia, Pearce, Dickerson, and others in Norfolk we can make do until Betemit is back, or we trade for someone like Konerko at the deadline.

When is the Super 2 deadline...just curious if anyone knows.

Tend to agree with you here. I really was not a fan of bringing him up this early but yest was about as good as your going to see from Garcia and it was 6 innings of decent pitching that was helped along by some really good defensive help. Jurrjens I feel even less optimistic about.

If Gaussman could fill that role then I think your right, you can sit back and wait till the deadline and make a few moves to address the lesser issues that exist. Love the Konerko idea at DH.

[DrungoHazewood]

You guys are such excellent debaters. I simply responded the statement "horrible numbers" with the data. Mark Reynolds would be second in OPS on this years roster. Mark Reynolds career OPS is higher than every Oriole except Nick Markakis. Mark Reynolds for 2010 - 2012 (.775) is higher than any Oriole in the same 3 year period except Jones(.796) and Markakis(.791)

I don't think Mark Reynolds would be having that big an impact on the O's season (seeing he doesn't pitch) but his numbers have never at any point in his career been "horrible" .

The problem with Reynolds is that he's been a bad defensive player with offensive numbers that are a bit above average at premium offensive positions. I wouldn't call a 111 OPS+ terrible, but it's about average for a first baseman and a bit above average for a third baseman. But the issue is that he's an abysmal third baseman and his defensive reputation at first far outstrips his numbers.

He's a 7-win player in 7 MLB seasons. If all the pieces lined up and he had his 2013 offensive numbers combined with his amateur scouting reports on defense from the second half of last year he could be really valuable. But he's never managed to do that. Even this year, with a near .900 OPS and near league-leading HR totals he's only been worth about a half a win.

He's like Adam Dunn a few years ago. He was so underrated he got overrated.

[Can_of_corn]

When is the Super 2 deadline...just curious if anyone knows.

Tend to agree with you here. I really was not a fan of bringing him up this early but yest was about as good as your going to see from Garcia and it was 6 innings of decent pitching that was helped along by some really good defensive help. Jurrjens I feel even less optimistic about.

If Gaussman could fill that role then I think your right, you can sit back and wait till the deadline and make a few moves to address the lesser issues that exist. Love the Konerko idea at DH.

It hasn't been determined yet. Teams have to guess like the O's did with Wieters.

[TiredofLosing20]

You guys are such excellent debaters. I simply responded the statement "horrible numbers" with the data. Mark Reynolds would be second in OPS on this years roster. Mark Reynolds career OPS is higher than every Oriole except Nick Markakis. Mark Reynolds for 2010 - 2012 (.775) is higher than any Oriole in the same 3 year period except Jones(.796) and Markakis(.791)

I don't think Mark Reynolds would be having that big an impact on the O's season (seeing he doesn't pitch) but his numbers have never at any point in his career been "horrible" .

None of these facts are really all that important. The question that needed asked was whether or not $6mm was worth .5 wins a year (his average during the time frame you are quoting) and whether or not you can replace those .5 wins a year and at what cost. They made the determination that they could replace those wins for cheaper. At the end of 2013, we will be able to look back and determine if he actually produces .5 wins, and whether or not the Orioles were able to replace him.

[DrungoHazewood]

Gausman. I ordinarily would want him to stay down until after the ASB, but we need help now, and I think he could give us at least a solid #4-5 level performance. Don't think the bat is nearly as important. With Valencia, Pearce, Dickerson, and others in Norfolk we can make do until Betemit is back, or we trade for someone like Konerko at the deadline.

Hopefully not Konerko himself, unless he really comes on. He's 37 and is OPSing .600 while being paid $13.5M.

[SteveO]

None of these facts are really all that important. The question that needed asked was whether or not $6mm was worth .5 wins a year (his average during the time frame you are quoting) and whether or not you can replace those .5 wins a year and at what cost. They made the determination that they could replace those wins for cheaper. At the end of 2013, we will be able to look back and determine if he actually produces .5 wins, and whether or not the Orioles were able to replace him.

Last year the Orioles has a team offensive WAR of 12.8 (24th) pitching WAR of 15.9 (14th) Fielding -4.7 (27th) . Not one of those categories indicates this team should have sniffed the playoffs and yet they did. By comparison the Rays were 21.1 hitting 21.7 pitching, 3.4 fielding and sat at home watching the playoffs.

Point is the stats are all great but the game is played on the field. I do not need WAR to tell me that offensively Reynolds is one heck of a lot better a player than Reimold, Valencia, Pearce, Dickinson etc. Somethings cannot be statistically quantified if everything could be then we would have been watching the Rays and about 7 other AL teams in the playoffs based on WAR instead of the O's

[weams]

When is the Super 2 deadline...just curious if anyone knows.

.

Frobby detailed yesterday that there is no exact super 2 deadline. It should be approximately June 2nd, but that can vary considerably.

[SteveO]

Used fangraphs for stats not a stat geek like some but do try to pay attention to them http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

[SteveO]

Frobby detailed yesterday that there is no exact super 2 deadline. It should be approximately June 2nd, but that can vary considerably.

Ty missed that yest.

Seems like it would be smart to not call him up till a week or two after that date? Not that far off

[weams]

He's a 7-win player in 7 MLB seasons. If all the pieces lined up and he had his 2013 offensive numbers combined with his amateur scouting reports on defense from the second half of last year he could be really valuable. But he's never managed to do that. Even this year, with a near .900 OPS and near league-leading HR totals he's only been worth about a half a win.

He's like Adam Dunn a few years ago. He was so underrated he got overrated.

It really is like that.

I think it is the ungodly length to some of their home runs that make us want to count them twice, erase their erratic defense and forgive the 200 times that they make an out without a chance of it being productive.

And they double plays when they do make contact. And neither one of them is true three true outcome guys. Plenty of pop outs. plenty of GIDP.

[weams]

Ty missed that yest.

Seems like it would be smart to not call him up till a week or two after that date? Not that far off

Since it is a percentage and is movable, it could be longer than that and still miss it by a couple days

[Il BuonO]

When is the Super 2 deadline...just curious if anyone knows.

Tend to agree with you here. I really was not a fan of bringing him up this early but yest was about as good as your going to see from Garcia and it was 6 innings of decent pitching that was helped along by some really good defensive help. Jurrjens I feel even less optimistic about.

If Gaussman could fill that role then I think your right, you can sit back and wait till the deadline and make a few moves to address the lesser issues that exist. Love the Konerko idea at DH.

It hasn't been determined yet. Teams have to guess like the O's did with Wieters.

I had a general idea yesterday when I asked the same question which Frobby confirmed with sometime after June 2.

Although, to be safe they would wait until the middle or end of the month because there is no set time.

I also agree with him that Gausman should be called up if we want to contend and the team thinks he can help irregardless of what the date is.

[El Gordo]

Hopefully not Konerko himself, unless he really comes on. He's 37 and is OPSing .600 while being paid $13.5M.

By the deadline he won't be owed 13.5 M, I don't put much stock in anyone's numbers at this point in the season, especially a guy with a career ave. 120 OPS+ and a 129 last year, and even if he is only .OPSing .600 that's an upgrade over the .518 we're getting out of the DH now. :rolleyestf:

[SteveO]

By the deadline he won't be owed 13.5 M, I don't put much stock in anyone's numbers at this point in the season, especially a guy with a career ave. 120 OPS+ and a 129 last year, and even if he is only .OPSing .600 that's an upgrade over the .518 we're getting out of the DH now. :rolleyestf:

That said if they want to send Jake Peavy along with him I would not be against that lol :2yay-thumb:

[El Gordo]

That said if they want to send Jake Peavy along with him I would not be against that lol :2yay-thumb:

Peavy is a great fit. I just wonder what he would cost us in trade.