I don't want to see Wieters playing for the O's until.......

[MurphDogg]

Dempsey was one of the first guys I ever suspected of doing roids. All of a sudden, in his 30s, he comes into camp ripped and is hitting home runs. He said he lifted a lot.

Yeah, when your top three home run seasons are at ages 34-36 when you have played 1000+ MLB games prior, it raises some eyebrows. Although he didn't have a similar uptick in doubles, so it may just be that he started swinging for the fences more, more of an uppercut swing.

[DrungoHazewood]

Dempsey was one of the first guys I ever suspected of doing roids. All of a sudden, in his 30s, he comes into camp ripped and is hitting home runs. He said he lifted a lot.

Of course that's possible, but Dempsey's home run "surge" was 11, 12, and 13 homers in '84-86 after a prior career high of 9. Then from '87-on he hit 18 homers the rest of his career.

[Rene88]

I am fine if MW never comes back. Let's go Celeb!

MW cares about one thing-getting paid. Let him go hit slow rollers to second for the Yankees for 5 years $100 million. Enjoy.

[Wish]

I am not saying Wieters is a bad catcher, not at all. I think he is well above average behind the plate, and prior to the injury had a great throwing arm. I just think Joseph is better. I think Jospeh calls a much better game. Wieters bat is not good enough to supplant Jospeh's superior D, JMO.

Huh? Weiters has always been the better defender. And he's miles ahead of him in offensive capability.

Joseph had a .264 OBP last year. He will never be a good enough hitter to justify being an everyday catcher. Yeah he is currently having a hot streak, so what? He had one last year too.

[Frobby]

I am fine if MW never comes back. Let's go Celeb!

MW cares about one thing-getting paid. Let him go hit slow rollers to second for the Yankees for 5 years $100 million. Enjoy.

Totally unfair comment about Wieters, who has been a great teammate during his time in Baltimore.

[wildcard]

Its not a question of how good Wieters is when he is 100% and has a full healthy ST to get in the groove. He is not dealing with that situation. He will be coming back in mid season. The pitchers will be ahead of him. His arm strength will be tested.

It really a less than 100% Wieters compared to Joseph.

[Redskins Rick]

Totally unfair comment about Wieters, who has been a great teammate during his time in Baltimore.

Part time coach, when he wasn't away from the team seeing doctors and rehabbing.

[Dipper9]

Its not a question of how good Wieters is when he is 100% and has a full healthy ST to get in the groove. He is not dealing with that situation. He will be come back in mid season. The pitchers will be ahead of him. His arm strength will be tested.

It really a less than 100% Wieters compared to Joseph.

Plus everybody and their brother will run on him to test his arm, so there is a good chance of re-aggravation and back to the DL, in my opinion.

[sportsfan8703]

Plus everybody and their brother will run on him to test his arm, so there is a good chance of re-aggravation and back to the DL, in my opinion.

Funny thing is everybody and their brother don't steal bases anymore. Who are the big base stealers in our division? Reyes, Gardner, Ellsbury, Betts, Jennings. That's it.

[Crazysilver03]

I am fine if MW never comes back. Let's go Celeb!

MW cares about one thing-getting paid. Let him go hit slow rollers to second for the Yankees for 5 years $100 million. Enjoy.

If he only cares about being paid, why did he stick with the team during the playoffs?

[Scrat1]

I am fine if MW never comes back. Let's go Celeb!

MW cares about one thing-getting paid. Let him go hit slow rollers to second for the Yankees for 5 years $100 million. Enjoy.

Not sure where this is coming from. I'm thrilled with Joseph and it certainly seems like he's going to be our starting catcher at least the next few years, but I don't understand the need to personally attack Wieters. He's been a very good catcher for us. Hopefully he'll put in a final strong season for the Orioles.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It has been a while since I looked at this, but I think most of the available data shows Wieters to be about average in pitch framing. For example, BP has him at +4.4 framing runs per 7000 pitches (though slightly below average in 2013-14). http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=57712 Joseph ranks better, though, at +17.4 per 7000 so far in his career. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=58842

That said, Wieters is a much better pitch blocker than Joseph, at +9.0 compared to +2.8. I think it's pretty noticeable that some pitches elude Joseph that Wieters would corral.

I've addressed this before. I'm not a big BP/FRAA fan, but the issue here is that the data presented is not adjusted and you can't see the adjusted data without a BP subscription. FRAA (BP's fielding evaluation system) actually holds Wieter's as a WORSE defender than DRS does over his career at essentially average (+0.2). If he has been an above average framer, an above average pitch blocker and an above average catch and throw guy (I think we all agree with this), then how does BP rate only him just average by FRAA?

Like DRS, the answer almost certainly lies with the adjusted data:

1. Pitch framing adjusted for pitcher skills (some evaluations do this and I ahave no idea what BP does and/or what DRS is going to utilize).

2. Pitch blocking based on a plus-minus event accounting rather than an aggregate scale (DRS does this and doesn't rate Wieter's particularly high)

3. CS efficiency accounting for pitcher hold skills (DRS does this and debits some of Wieter's efficiency)

Add misc stuff like plays on bunts/slow rollers and pickoffs etc.(play Wieters doesn't excel at imo). I'm not sure if BP has a C-ERA component or not like DRS does, but DRS actually holds him above average over his career, so it's not really hurting his career numbers.

As far as Joseph goes, I agree there appears to be some blocking plays he could have made. I think he looked particularly bad later in the year last yearand I attribute some of that to fatigue. I realize he has also made a few this year that "could" have been caught. That said, from my recollection, most this year have been pretty tough chances. Like I stated above, I'm not sure the raw data necessarily indicates Wieter's is better at blocking or not. He may be, he does use his arms well, but I don't take the aggregate data at face. Personally, I think Joseph is working with some tougher guys like Ubaldo, Norris and Britton (among others) than Wieter's did. I also think Joseph calls a game different, moves around more and sets up differently, may lose some due to framing, and challenges his pitchers to work more down in the zone than Wieter's did. If Wieters is better, I bet Joseph closes the gap when you account for some of these things.

[Frobby]

I've addressed this before. I'm not a big BP/FRAA fan, but the issue here is that the data presented is not adjusted and you can't see the adjusted data without a BP subscription. FRAA (BP's fielding evaluation system) actually holds Wieter's as a WORSE defender than DRS does over his career at essentially average (+0.2). If he has been an above average framer, an above average pitch blocker and an above average catch and throw guy (I think we all agree with this), then how does BP rate only him just average by FRAA?

Like DRS, the answer almost certainly lies with the adjusted data:

1. Pitch framing adjusted for pitcher skills (some evaluations do this and I ahave no idea what BP does and/or what DRS is going to utilize).

2. Pitch blocking based on a plus-minus event accounting rather than an aggregate scale (DRS does this and doesn't rate Wieter's particularly high)

3. CS efficiency accounting for pitcher hold skills (DRS does this and debits some of Wieter's efficiency)

Add misc stuff like plays on bunts/slow rollers and pickoffs etc.(play Wieters doesn't excel at imo). I'm not sure if BP has a C-ERA component or not like DRS does, but DRS actually holds him above average over his career, so it's not really hurting his career numbers.

As far as Joseph goes, I agree there appears to be some blocking plays he could have made. I think he looked particularly bad later in the year last yearand I attribute some of that to fatigue. I realize he has also made a few this year that "could" have been caught. That said, from my recollection, most this year have been pretty tough chances. Like I stated above, I'm not sure the raw data necessarily indicates Wieter's is better at blocking or not. He may be, he does use his arms well, but I don't take the aggregate data at face. Personally, I think Joseph is working with some tougher guys like Ubaldo, Norris and Britton (among others) than Wieter's did. I also think Joseph calls a game different, moves around more and sets up differently, may lose some due to framing, and challenges his pitchers to work more down in the zone than Wieter's did. If Wieters is better, I bet Joseph closes the gap when you account for some of these things.

There's a lot of nuance in what you wrote here, and it illustrates how hard it is to come up with truly objective statistics that filter out all the different factors that the catcher can't control. At the end of the day, there is always going to be some subjectivity involved. And when it comes to that, I trust Buck's judgment more than I trust my own (or anyone else's on this site).

[weams]

Funny thing is everybody and their brother don't steal bases anymore. Who are the big base stealers in our division? Reyes, Gardner, Ellsbury, Betts, Jennings. That's it.

Reyes and Gardner have leg issues again this year.

[DrungoHazewood]

Funny thing is everybody and their brother don't steal bases anymore. Who are the big base stealers in our division? Reyes, Gardner, Ellsbury, Betts, Jennings. That's it.

Random aside: In Posnanski's recent article on Steve Dalkowski he mentioned a start that was a fairly typical Dalkowski line with double digit walks and strikeouts and almost no hits allowed. But 21 stolen bases. He allowed 21 steals in a single start.