Would you trade Machado?

[El Gordo]

Just wondering - what does Cal's situation have to do with Manny's? Manny can leave the O's as he's reaching his peak years. Was there ever any real danger of Cal leaving?

After they fired his dad he thought seriously about it.

[Ruzious]

After they fired his dad he thought seriously about it.

Maybe, but he re-signed with the O's during the next season. In any event, I don't see Manny's situation as being similar to Cal's.

[Ohfan67]

I am saying is that if you look at it in hindsight it is possible that the team would have been better off.

I'm sure Cal would have liked more than three trips to the playoffs in 21 years.

Of course I wouldn't have trusted some of the GMs to orchestrate a trade of that magnitude.

In terms of future wins, then maybe or even probably. In terms of dollars generated by gate, then only after he broke the record.

[El Gordo]

Gillick came out of retirement to a guide a team that was close to winning a championship, which they didn't.

He left at the end of his 3 year contract.

IMO, I suspect he found out that Angelos then, was not a bundle of joy to work under.

As Frank Wren found out and was fired after just a year at the helm.

"Gillick reportedly was ready to carve up the disappointing '96 Orioles and trade Bobby Bonilla and David Wells for younger players who could help in '97 and beyond.

It was a second-guessable position with the Orioles just five games out in the wild-card race, but Gillick, one of the game's best general managers, had seen enough to believe that the club was better off angling for the future with such players as Seattle catching prospect Chris Widger.

He was hired to make such judgments after building a team that won two World Series in Toronto.

Angelos basically overruled him, preferring to continue trying to win this year. The owner was willing to trade Bonilla, but not Wells."http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-08-02/sports/1996215073_1_pat-gillick-peter-angelos-bonilla

[OsEatAlEast]

Back to the main topic. I would try to re-sign Machado to an extension this winter. With him having an understanding that if a deal is not worked out. He can expect to be traded sooner than later. Give him a 6-8 year deal with an opt out somewhere in the second half of the contract.

Also, I just have a feeling that Machado is going to age faster than most players because of the knee surgeries.

[Ruzious]

"Gillick reportedly was ready to carve up the disappointing '96 Orioles and trade Bobby Bonilla and David Wells for younger players who could help in '97 and beyond.

It was a second-guessable position with the Orioles just five games out in the wild-card race, but Gillick, one of the game's best general managers, had seen enough to believe that the club was better off angling for the future with such players as Seattle catching prospect Chris Widger.

He was hired to make such judgments after building a team that won two World Series in Toronto.

Angelos basically overruled him, preferring to continue trying to win this year. The owner was willing to trade Bonilla, but not Wells."http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-08-02/sports/1996215073_1_pat-gillick-peter-angelos-bonilla

Yeah, just the fact that he over-ruled Gillick should have been enough for Gillick to quit - regardless of the reasons. Gillick had already proven to be one of the best in the business. The arrogance/stupidity it took to override Gillick there... let's just say that made the next decade predictable.

[24fps]

A lot of good discussion. Let me ask this - would you trade him this winter, next winter, or at the trade deadline in 2018?

I personally think you do it now as you should be able to get more back and why delay the inevitable.

Because the team has already been built for contending in 2016 and 2017, I don't think trading Machado and Britton this offseason is an option. FWIW I would have traded Britton last offseason, not resigned CD, and not offered MW the QO followed by allocating the resources elsewhere. If that had taken place then trading Machado this offseason would be an option although maybe not a desirable one. In other words, what I would do is predicated on what I would have done before the Orioles got themselves in their current situation

If the Orioles are struggling in late July, then I would trade Machado, Britton and probably Tillman and AJ as well. If they are in the race, then I would enjoy every minute of it and let 2018 take care of itself.

[waroriole]

Of course you trade Manny if he won't resign here. The real question is if we should look into it if he'll only sign a huge deal with opt outs.

[ChuckS]

I'm certainly not letting Manny hit free agency. If there is no extension then I think you have to trade him at the deadline unless we are in serious contention. You don't get enough back waiting until 2018.

[Chavez Ravine]

A lot of good discussion. Let me ask this - would you trade him this winter, next winter, or at the trade deadline in 2018?

I personally think you do it now as you should be able to get more back and why delay the inevitable.

I think there is a ceiling to how much you can extract from a single team for him, and although it makes logical sense that you should get more for that extra full year of control in practice would it be all that much? An extra serviceable MLB cog or a B prospect?

I would try to squeeze another run out of the current turnip we have and then send him off.

[MDtransplant757]

Shouldn't they have?

Three playoff appearances over twenty-one years says maybe it would have been a good idea.

Mid to Late 80's, I wouldn't have trusted the GMs during that point to do anything right. Look who we got back for Curt Schilling as proof of my point. Early 90's, we couldn't because he was a huge marketing part of the Camden Yards experience and an Angelos favorite. Late 90's: We couldn't have gotten anything for him that would justify the backlash that the fans would have had, and those were his declining years.

[MDtransplant757]

Angelos made the right call.

I think this is what made him arrogant years later. That and in an interview he said he lost $4 million on the club that year.

[Ruzious]

Angelos made the right call.

It's not the point - whether Gillick wanted to make a move that was smart or stupid. A GM like him cannot do his job with the threat of a know-nothing owner (which Angelos was and is) interfering. Again, what does the next decade tell you? The best GM's in baseball history have all made bad mistakes, but they had the freedom to make up for those mistakes and did so.

[Camden_yardbird]

The question is, what is the drop dead point for trading him provided he won't extend? Where does the value in prospects become larger than the value to competition? A player like Machado you could trade him during the trade deadline before he becomes a free agent for a haul, but would it be enough. You would not get a bregman or McCullers at that point because they would be needed on the major league team. If you let him walk into his last year you also run the risk of injury and getting nothing. So you cant do that. I would think if you can't extend him and you don't get blown away by an offer that it would be the offseason before he becomes a free agent, otherwise you talking total rebuild starting the moment you trade him.

[jabba72]

If Machado wont sign an extension and Angelos is balking at his price, then he probably should be traded his final year. Get two-three above average players under long term control, consider yourself lucky and move on.