Question about Merv Rettenmund

[Enjoy Terror]

Sorry if this is way out of right field (excuse the pun), but I figured it's the slowest offseason ever so why not post this?

I was doing a little research on baseball players who don't meet the standards to be "qualified" for a batting title, that is, must have at least 3.1 plate appearances per game.

If you take all ~10,000 position players in history, filter out anyone that had more than 3.1 PA/G, and sort by WAR, Merv Rettenmund is #3 all time behind catchers Rick Dempsey and 6x All Star Smoky Burgess. Catchers I sort of get because they don't play every day. But Merv was an outfielder. Outfielders don't play everyday if they're on the bench or platooning with someone else.

He played for Baltimore in 6 of his 13 year career, and logged 3074PA's in 1023 games. He accumulated 20.1 bWAR (which is pretty great for a career) but only managed more than 400PAs in a season once; 1971, the only year where he actually qualified for a batting title and even garnered some MVP votes. His career OPS+ was 123.

My question is this: his LHP and RHP splits are very similar-- why does it seem like he was a platoon player for most of his career? I wasn't old enough to remember him or baseball back then, but I was wondering if any of you remember why it seems he couldn't get a regular gig in the outfield. Is there some context to his situation that I'm not aware of?

[Frobby]

The context is he played on teams that had Frank Robinson, Paul Blair and Don Buford.    He was the fourth OF on a team that had three excellent starting outfielders.    Earl rested his starters way more than most current managers (especially Buck), so Rettenmund got a good bit of playing time, but not enough to qualify.   And after Frank was traded, Rettenmund kind of went downhill.   

[Enjoy Terror]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

The context is he played on teams that had Frank Robinson, Paul Blair and Don Buford.    He was the fourth OF on a team that had three excellent starting outfielders.    Earl rested his starters way more than most current managers (especially Buck), so Rettenmund got a good bit of playing time, but not enough to qualify.   And after Frank was traded, Rettenmund kind of went downhill.   

Same seems to be true of Gary Roenicke, but ten years later. Same thing? He also did not, for his career, qualify.

[mdbdotcom]

Rettenmund was not a platoon player, he was a very good 4th outfielder who was stuck early in his career playing behind Frank Robinson, Paul Blair and Don Buford. His career splits show he had more AB vs. RHP than LHP. Earl just picked his spots with him. He was also a very good pinch hitter in the years before there was a DH. In fact, games played as a PH rank 2nd for him behind games played as a RF.

Not a great player, but a very good and dependable player.

[webbrick2010]

I think Merv was ahead of his time. Great OBP, but I bet Earl didn't like the lack of power from a corner outfielder

[Redskins Rick]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The context is he played on teams that had Frank Robinson, Paul Blair and Don Buford.    He was the fourth OF on a team that had three excellent starting outfielders.    Earl rested his starters way more than most current managers (especially Buck), so Rettenmund got a good bit of playing time, but not enough to qualify.   And after Frank was traded, Rettenmund kind of went downhill.   

 

You dont play 95 / 106 / 141 / 102 / 95 as a 4th.

In 71, he played 141 games, and so did Blair, Robinson played 133 and Buford played 122. it was more like, Earl had 4 starting OFers.

 

 

[tntoriole]

Merv was behind Buford, Blair, Robinson in 1969 but then in 1970 on May 31, Paul Blair was hit in the face by Jack Tatum and Rettenmud became a regular much of the second half of 1970 and tore it up, hittin .373. 

In 1971,he was part of an outfield rotation that included all 4, but Rettenmund had more innings than any of the other three outfielders as Blair was never the same player.  

Frank Robinson was traded in winter before the 1972 season, so Rettenmund had regular right field job in 1972 but was hurt a lot of the year, and then his batting never recovered and he ended up losing out his job in 1973 midseason to the new rotation of Rich Coggins, Al Bumbry and Don Baylor..he was traded after the 1973 season to the Reds for Ross Grimsley. 

[weams]

3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I think Merv was ahead of his time. Great OBP, but I bet Earl didn't like the lack of power from a corner outfielder

Nor should anyone. 

[Ridgway22]

On 1/5/2018 at 5:01 PM, tntoriole said:

Merv was behind Buford, Blair, Robinson in 1969 but then in 1970 on May 31, Paul Blair was hit in the face by Jack Tatum and Rettenmud became a regular much of the second half of 1970 and tore it up, hittin .373. 

In 1971,he was part of an outfield rotation that included all 4, but Rettenmund had more innings than any of the other three outfielders as Blair was never the same player.  

Frank Robinson was traded in winter before the 1972 season, so Rettenmund had regular right field job in 1972 but was hurt a lot of the year, and then his batting never recovered and he ended up losing out his job in 1973 midseason to the new rotation of Rich Coggins, Al Bumbry and Don Baylor..he was traded after the 1973 season to the Reds for Ross Grimsley. 

I met Merv Rettenmund about 2002-2004 at John Rubinow's "Pro Ball Camp" at the Padres facility in Peoria, Arizona. It was basically whole bunch of us never-weres and has-beens playing in the MSBL trying to up our game with major league coaches. Merv asked why I was an O's fan, and I told him I was 9 years old in 1971 when I saw him play in Tokyo, Japan (My dad was in the Navy). Turned out Merv and I lived fairly close to each other in San Diego, and we stayed in touch. He even came out and was the "bench coach" for one of my teams' MSBL games. 

When I saw this thread, i emailed him the original post, and he called today. We talked about the O's of that era, and his career. He gave me permission to post the below. (And told some stories I won't post!)

Merv's a great storyteller, and talks fast. I was scribbling notes as quickly as I could...

- In 1970, when Blair got drilled, Merv wasn't playing much, but was hitting bullets, and only had a .226 batting average to show for it. But (to the best of his recollection) he was near the top in homers on the team. Earl was very loyal to his vets. When they got back to Baltimore after the beaning, Earl gave a newspaper interview, where he called out Merv, saying "we can't have .226 hitters in there". After the beaning, Merv got some regular playing time and put up monster numbers the rest of the year. in the world series that year, he had a +/- 17 pitch ab against Tony Cloninger, and got knocked down. A few pitches later, he drilled a opposite field HR. He thinks it was part of the reason the Reds later traded for him. Note: Jack Tatum, who drilled Blair, was scared as well, and it affected him deeply.

1971, He had the most AB's of the outfielders, FRobin was getting older, Buford's knee was problematic, and Blair was playing scared. Merv was the fastest and best hitter of the bunch at that time. He said even when he would take a bad swing, it seemed like everything was falling in. (High BABIP) Side story: When the O's would be in Fenway or a couple other ballparks, and taking BP, the opposing pitchers would run by and say to Blair stuff like "got one for you today, Blair", an intimidation tactic. One Red Sox pitcher would keep a list of numbers written in his hat, and if the situation permitted, he would drill the hitter, then walk up and stare down at him.

1972: "I had a [crappy] year. Was not hurt it was all mental, and never got it back" There was a strike that year, and when the season started he said he was out of shape, and could never get it going, the whole team seemed to get old at the same time. He tomahawked a homer off John Hiller to straight away center at the Old Tiger stadium, and Earl Weaver told him to start pulling more and hitting more homers, which was not his game.

1973, Had spurts of hitting well, but Bumbry showed up and was the real deal. Merv said Bumby was fastest he saw until Bo Jackson. Baylor grew into left field. Merv also severely bruised his sternum somewhere along in here, and said it hurt like hell. 

1974, (Cinn) He was playing center field when Hank Aaron hit his 714th to tie Babe Ruth

1975, (Cinn) Was supposed to be in a platoon with Griffey Sr., George Foster, and Cesar Geronimo, but they only faced a couple lefties through first 30 games. And George Foster hit a monster home run that opened eyes, and he became the regular left fielder and never looked back. He said he felt great that year, and had high hopes, but played little. 

Misc:

Earl Weaver was a stathead, and was an early adopter of matchups on a game by game basis. Merv enjoyed playing for Earl.

Not sure of the year, but there was an Old Timers game at Shea stadium, the O's vs. Mets, a 1969 reprise. Merv showed up and Earl asked if he could play. Merv said, "Sure, if you can get me a hip replacement". Earl says "Good, cause you're hitting 3rd", and Merv told him, "Hell you wouldn't hit me 3rd when I COULD hit!"

When Petco park opened in San Diego, the first time Pittsburgh came to visit, he met the Pirates general manager from 1971. (Joe Brown), and Joe Brown told Merv he was in the meetings where they discussed a shift against Merv. Pirates SS Jackie Hernandez was playing up the middle in the 2-1 game, and Merv hit a hard ground ball up the middle, right at the waiting Hernandez for the final out of the 1971 series.

He said he could be off a bit here or there in some of the stories, he said it all kind of blends together these days. He's 74, and has a couple of kids he works with as a hitting instructor in San Diego, but will soon retire from that and travel more.

Cheers,

Kyle

 

 

[tntoriole]

8 minutes ago, Ridgway22 said:

I met Merv Rettenmund about 2002-2004 at John Rubinow's "Pro Ball Camp" at the Padres facility in Peoria, Arizona. It was basically whole bunch of us never-weres and has-beens playing in the MSBL trying to up our game with major league coaches. Merv asked why I was an O's fan, and I told him I was 9 years old in 1971 when I saw him play in Tokyo, Japan (My dad was in the Navy). Turned out Merv and I lived fairly close to each other in San Diego, and we stayed in touch. He even came out and was the "bench coach" for one of my teams' MSBL games. 

When I saw this thread, i emailed him the original post, and he called today. We talked about the O's of that era, and his career. He gave me permission to post the below. (And told some stories I won't post!)

Merv's a great storyteller, and talks fast. I was scribbling notes as quickly as I could...

- In 1970, when Blair got drilled, Merv wasn't playing much, but was hitting bullets, and only had a .226 batting average to show for it. But (to the best of his recollection) he was near the top in homers on the team. Earl was very loyal to his vets. When they got back to Baltimore after the beaning, Earl gave a newspaper interview, where he called out Merv, saying "we can't have .226 hitters in there". After the beaning, Merv got some regular playing time and put up monster numbers the rest of the year. in the world series that year, he had a +/- 17 pitch ab against Tony Cloninger, and got knocked down. A few pitches later, he drilled a opposite field HR. He thinks it was part of the reason the Reds later traded for him. Note: Jack Tatum, who drilled Blair, was scared as well, and it affected him deeply.

1971, He had the most AB's of the outfielders, FRobin was getting older, Buford's knee was problematic, and Blair was playing scared. Merv was the fastest and best hitter of the bunch at that time. He said even when he would take a bad swing, it seemed like everything was falling in. (High BABIP) Side story: When the O's would be in Fenway or a couple other ballparks, and taking BP, the opposing pitchers would run by and say to Blair stuff like "got one for you today, Blair", an intimidation tactic. One Red Sox pitcher would keep a list of numbers written in his hat, and if the situation permitted, he would drill the hitter, then walk up and stare down at him.

1972: "I had a shitty year. Was not hurt it was all mental, and never got it back" There was a strike that year, and when the season started he said he was out of shape, and could never get it going, the whole team seemed to get old at the same time. He tomahawked a homer off John Hiller to straight away center at the Old Tiger stadium, and Earl Weaver told him to start pulling more and hitting more homers, which was not his game.

1973, Had spurts of hitting well, but Bumbry showed up and was the real deal. Merv said Bumby was fastest he saw until Bo Jackson. Baylor grew into left field. Merv also severely bruised his sternum somewhere along in here, and said it hurt like hell. 

1974, (Cinn) He was playing center field when Hank Aaron hit his 714th to tie Babe Ruth

1975, (Cinn) Was supposed to be in a platoon with Griffey Sr., George Foster, and Cesar Geronimo, but they only faced a couple lefties through first 30 games. And George Foster hit a monster home run that opened eyes, and he became the regular left fielder and never looked back. He said he felt great that year, and had high hopes, but played little. 

Misc:

Earl Weaver was a stathead, and was an early adopter of matchups on a game by game basis. Merv enjoyed playing for Earl.

Not sure of the year, but there was an Old Timers game at Shea stadium, the O's vs. Mets, a 1969 reprise. Merv showed up and Earl asked if he could play. Merv said, "Sure, if you can get me a hip replacement". Earl says "Good, cause you're hitting 3rd", and Merv told him, "Hell you wouldn't hit me 3rd when I COULD hit!"

When Petco park opened in San Diego, the first time Pittsburgh came to visit, he met the Pirates general manager from 1971. (Joe Brown), and Joe Brown told Merv he was in the meetings where they discussed a shift against Merv. Pirates SS Jackie Hernandez was playing up the middle in the 2-1 game, and Merv hit a hard ground ball up the middle, right at the waiting Hernandez for the final out of the 1971 series.

He said he could be off a bit here or there in some of the stories, he said it all kind of blends together these days. He's 74, and has a couple of kids he works with as a hitting instructor in San Diego, but will soon retire from that and travel more.

Cheers,

Kyle

 

 

Outstanding post!  Amazing stuff!  Thanks so much for sharing!!  I hope Roy sees this one!  I know he would love it! 

[Frobby]

Awesome post.   I don’t remember Merv being that fast (he claims here he was fastest on the team in ‘71), but maybe he was.   I tried to look up how many pitches Tony Cloninger threw him before he hit his WS homer, but BB-ref box scores from that period don’t have pitch count info.  

[Ridgway22]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Awesome post.   I don’t remember Merv being that fast (he claims here he was fastest on the team in ‘71), but maybe he was.   I tried to look up how many pitches Tony Cloninger threw him before he hit his WS homer, but BB-ref box scores from that period don’t have pitch count info.  

I  must have misheard, or he said it felt like 17 pitches. It was actually 9. Found the video (1:38:10) on youtube at: 

It was 9 pitches:

1.foul down rf line
2. called strike, curveball on outside corner
3. *high, tight knockdown pitch*
4. fouled off
5. ball outside
6. ball, low
7. fouled back
8. fouled away
9. homer down right field line.

[Ridgway22]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Awesome post.   I don’t remember Merv being that fast (he claims here he was fastest on the team in ‘71), but maybe he was.   I tried to look up how many pitches Tony Cloninger threw him before he hit his WS homer, but BB-ref box scores from that period don’t have pitch count info.  

Merv was also a running back at Ball State, and drafted by the Dallas Cowboys:

At Ball State, Rettenmund broke the school’s single-season rushing record held by Timmy Brown, who played for the Philadelphia Eagles and Baltimore Colts. Rettenmund was good enough to get drafted by the Dallas Cowboys – much to his surprise, because he had played just three games as a senior because of injuries.

Source:
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/d85594f6

[Frobby]

Looking back on Rettenmund’s career, he has to be right at the top of the list for most underrated Oriole of all time.    He had a 133 OPS+ as an Oriole, and accumulated 17.0 rWAR in only 570 games and 2021 PA.   He had seasons of 5.8, 4.8 and 4.2 rWAR as an Oriole.   And, in his best three seasons, the O’s won one World Series, two AL pennants, and three AL East titles.     As an Oriole, he played more games, had more PA and had a far higher rWAR than Don Baylor, for example.    He had a higher WAR for the Birds than several Orioles Hall of Farmers, like Gary Roenicke (15.8), John Lowenstein (9.5), Harold Baines (9.5), Mike Bordick (14.4), Rich Dauer (14.4) and Lee May (4.5), just to name a few.   It’s amazing how overshadowed he was on those great Orioles teams. I’ve been as guilty as anyone of overlooking his contributions.