Wieters and Rutschman

[hoosiers]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:42 PM, LookinUp said:

I once read a projection that Wieters was 50/50 to be in the hall of fame. Then I saw him hit. Slow swing. Very slow swing. Makes me really wonder how he ever posted the college and MiL numbers he did.

 

Until a prospect hits in the show, you will never know.  You never know whether the bat speed and swing planes and holes in swing that can work or be covered up in the minors will be exploited by major league pitchers in such a manner that the hitter is nuetralized.  Of course, this applies to all hitting prospects and not just the catchers.  

Interesting to hear someone saw they "saw" a "slow swing" from a MLB catcher who hit over 20 HRs three years in a row in MW's age 25-27 and who would have hit double digit HRs from his age 24 to age 31 seasons if not for injuries in two of those years (he was on pace for well of 10 HRs in those two injured seasons).  A four time AS.  MW did not live up to the HoF hype generated by his minor league numbers, but he was a very good major league catcher.  

[Jammer7]

On 1/27/2019 at 11:30 AM, hoosiers said:

Until a prospect hits in the show, you will never know.  You never know whether the bat speed and swing planes and holes in swing that can work or be covered up in the minors will be exploited by major league pitchers in such a manner that the hitter is nuetralized.  Of course, this applies to all hitting prospects and not just the catchers.  

Interesting to hear someone saw they "saw" a "slow swing" from a MLB catcher who hit over 20 HRs three years in a row in MW's age 25-27 and who would have hit double digit HRs from his age 24 to age 31 seasons if not for injuries in two of those years (he was on pace for well of 10 HRs in those two injured seasons).  A four time AS.  MW did not live up to the HoF hype generated by his minor league numbers, but he was a very good major league catcher.  

Matt Wieters did/does everything slowly. The bat may have slowed down because of how much of a beating he took. But he was a very good major league catcher for several years. Not worthy of the #4 pick in the first round, but he was the consensus talent for that spot at the time of the draft. Underachieved, no doubt. 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Matt Wieters did/does everything slowly. The bat may have slowed down because of how much of a beating he took. But he was a very good major league catcher for several years. Not worthy of the #4 pick in the first round, but he was the consensus talent for that spot at the time of the draft. Underachieved, no doubt. 

Nonsense.

Also, he went 5th.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Nonsense.

Also, he went 5th.

Out of 54 no. 5 overall picks, Wieters ranks 9th in career rWAR.    I’d say he was worthy of his pick.  

If he’d been picked 4th, as Jammer7 erroneously thought, he’d be the 11th ranked no. 4 pick.  

[connja]

Anyone else secretly hoping that Bobby Witt has an incredible spring and gives the O's a reason to select him instead?  Or have no problem if we select Witt and negotiate a lower bonus so we can spend down the board.

I'm struggling with the idea of drafting a catcher with the first pick.   Especially when there is a potential 5-tool SS out there, who we have time to groom.  Rauchman will probably be ready before we need him.  Then he'll play 120 games a year, and you hope he doesn't get beaten down by the time we're ready to compete.  There's a reason that there aren't many great catchers out there - it's really hard to sustain!

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, connja said:

Anyone else secretly hoping that Bobby Witt has an incredible spring and gives the O's a reason to select him instead?  Or have no problem if we select Witt and negotiate a lower bonus so we can spend down the board.

I'm struggling with the idea of drafting a catcher with the first pick.   Especially when there is a potential 5-tool SS out there, who we have time to groom.  Rauchman will probably be ready before we need him.  Then he'll play 120 games a year, and you hope he doesn't get beaten down by the time we're ready to compete.  There's a reason that there aren't many great catchers out there - it's really hard to sustain!

Witt isn't five tool.

He's also old.

[TheOtherRipken]

I know we have the first pick, but I’ve never seen the OH so deadset on who we are drafting so far away from the draft. A lot can change in a college / high school season. 

[Just Regular]

2 hours ago, TheOtherRipken said:

I know we have the first pick, but I’ve never seen the OH so deadset on who we are drafting so far away from the draft. A lot can change in a college / high school season. 

For me it's about enjoying the novelty of the #1 pick.  Even the years we got Machado, Bundy, etc, there wasn't the opportunity to speculate so freely as anybody might not have been there.  I'm not clamoring for Rutschman as much as observing he's the early favorite.  I hope he or someone else goes supernova so we can approach the Nationals luckiness in the Strasburg Harper years.

The same podcast last weekend suggested 2-10 is a mixed bag right now, and the one specific they discussed from that group was Daniel Espino, who has an interesting crouch in his delivery.  

[Jammer7]

16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Nonsense.

Also, he went 5th.

Off by one pick, excuse me. I should be flogged, purged. 

And it’s debatable whether or not he was worthy of the #5 pick. There certainly was much worse out there, and I suppose the lense I view him through is tainted by his inability to reach the hype that surrounded him. I wanted them to take Mad Bum or Jason Heyward at that slot, personally. And I am sure Frobby will look it up to see my comments from then. It was a particularly bad draft that year.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Off by one pick, excuse me. I should be flogged, purged. 

And it’s debatable whether or not he was worthy of the #5 pick. There certainly was much worse out there, and I suppose the lense I view him through is tainted by his inability to reach the hype that surrounded him. I wanted them to take Mad Bum or Jason Heyward at that slot, personally. And I am sure Frobby will look it up to see my comments from then. It was a particularly bad draft that year.

What?

I said "also, he went 5th."  That is a seriously polite correction by internet standards. 

I don't really think you can make a case that he wasn't worth the number 5 pick.  I'm not sure where he falls in his draft class but he outperformed some folks taken ahead of him and underperformed some folks taken behind him.  Overall the O's did fine.

Rumor had it that Heyward would have been a very difficult sign for a team other than the Braves (he went to school in GA).

[Jammer7]

16 hours ago, Frobby said:

Out of 54 no. 5 overall picks, Wieters ranks 9th in career rWAR.    I’d say he was worthy of his pick.  

If he’d been picked 4th, as Jammer7 erroneously thought, he’d be the 11th ranked no. 4 pick.  

You are so kind. It is my opinion, and I would rather have had Mad Bum or Jason Heyward. I know you will look it up to fact check me on my comments from then. Enjoy. 

And just for clarification, my thought process was as to how i would draft them in retrospect. Would you rank him as the #5 prospect in that draft now? I would not, but hey, whatever. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Jammer7 said:

You are so kind. It is my opinion, and I would rather have had Mad Bum or Jason Heyward. I know you will look it up to fact check me on my comments from then. Enjoy. 

And just for clarification, my thought process was as to how i would draft them in retrospect. Would you rank him as the #5 prospect in that draft now? I would not, but hey, whatever. 

Yea, no.

I've got better things to do, like laundry.  Got to finish a load of whites.

I'll take your word for it.

As for draft order, are you assuming Jake would sign for a reasonable amount as a top 5 pick?  That Heyward would sign with a team other than the Braves?

I saw Frobby ran the WAR numbers but I don't know if he runs them for the 6+ years of team control or for their career.  I only care about the 6+ years.

[Jammer7]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What?

I said "also, he went 5th."  That is a seriously polite correction by internet standards. 

I don't really think you can make a case that he wasn't worth the number 5 pick.  I'm not sure where he falls in his draft class but he outperformed some folks taken ahead of him and underperformed some folks taken behind him.  Overall the O's did fine.

Rumor had it that Heyward would have been a very difficult sign for a team other than the Braves (he went to school in GA).

Hey pal, the flogged thing was also known as humor. I am not mad. Not that sensitive. I was posting on the go. It’s all good.

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yea, no.

I've got better things to do, like laundry.  Got to finish a load of whites.

I'll take your word for it.

Easy...as do I have much to do. Which was why I missed by one pick. And that post was not directed to you, if you look again. Easy....

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Hey pal, the fogged thing was also known as humor. I am not mad. Not that sensitive. I was posting on the go. It’s all good.

That can be kinda hard to pick up without verbal and facial cues.