Wieters and Rutschman

[atomic]

On 2/7/2019 at 4:07 PM, LookinUp said:

All of this is true. It's also true that I was at his first ML game, saw his first ML at bat, and immediately came away surprised at how over matched he looked. Maybe his swing wasn't technically slow. Maybe it was long. Or maybe it was late pitch recognition. I don't know. I just know that he was billed through the draft and then through his minor league career as a HoF hitter and it was obvious to me from the first day I saw him that he was not (unless there was an injury or something I didn't know about). The guy never had an OPS above .778 except for one injury shortened year where he started out on a tear. Yes, he ran into some home runs, but he was a #6-7 hitter billed as a #3 guy. I also readily admit that a lot of his value came on defense, but I'm skeptical about dWAR in general and specifically about the value Wieters supposedly added since he wasn't a pitch framer and stolen bases are exiting the game.

 I'm not killing the guy or the pick. He turned out pretty good, but even though he was 9th in WAR out of Frobby's 54 year look back, I can guarantee that the other 45 teams were hoping for more out of their #5 pick.

14.6 offensive WAR. 18 total WAR.  You can't look at the DWar numbers and say because he was positive WAR he was an above average defensive catcher. With the way DWAR is calculated you would have to be a truly horrible defensive catcher to have negative WAR.  

[Frobby]

21 hours ago, atomic said:

14.6 offensive WAR. 18 total WAR.  You can't look at the DWar numbers and say because he was positive WAR he was an above average defensive catcher. With the way DWAR is calculated you would have to be a truly horrible defensive catcher to have negative WAR.  

Catcher is the hardest defensive position to measure, but here’s what you have:

Rtot: +47 (BB-ref)

Rdrs: -1 (BB-ref)

Rfield: +34 (BB-ref)

DRS: +25 (Fangraphs)

FRAA: +37.9 (BP)

Throw in the two gold gloves and I’m going to say Wieters was an above average defensive catcher.

 

[Il BuonO]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Catcher is the hardest defensive position to measure, but here’s what you have:

Rtot: +47 (BB-ref)

Rdrs: -1 (BB-ref)

Rfield: +34 (BB-ref)

DRS: +25 (Fangraphs)

FRAA: +37.9 (BP)

Throw in the two gold gloves and I’m going to say Wieters was an above average defensive catcher.

Surprised. If he was even average at framing those numbers would look better.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Surprised. If he was even average at framing those numbers would look better.

Early on he was above average.

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Surprised. If he was even average at framing those numbers would look better.

 

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Early on he was above average.

Per BP, Wieters was +21.8 in framing runs as an Oriole, but -14.9 as a Nat.    https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/57712/matt-wieters (click on the “catching” tab)

[Luke-OH]

At the risk of furthering hype, here is a quote from Paul Mainieri (Rutschman's manager on the USA Collegiate National Team and also the head coach of the dominant LSU baseball program).

“I’ll say this — I’ve had some great catchers throughout the years, but Rutschman is clearly a cut above everyone I’ve ever seen as a coach,” Mainieri said. “He’s such the total package. He hits from both sides equally well, he hits with power and does so with ease with two strikes and he has a great eye at the plate. He’s a clutch hitter and he’s a smarter hitter. He’s also a tremendous receiver. I mean, he’s out there throwing 1.85’s to second baes in games. He’s so good.

“You see it with his leadership, too. He comes in the dugout and stands right next to you. He wants to talk about how to pitch the next guy and so on. As a coach, you don’t want to necessarily stand next to your catcher all the time, but God, you talk to him and stand next to him and you can’t help but to be captivated by him. He looks every bit of a 1-1 guy in the draft for me, and I can’t imagine myself as a general manager passing on him.”

https://d1baseball.com/notebook/usa-baseball-collegiate-summer-wrap/

[eddie83]

Rutschman needs to step up.....  0-2 today so far with 2 K’s. Just struck out with bases loaded. Has walked.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

Rutschman needs to step up.....  0-2 today so far with 2 K’s. Just struck out with bases loaded. Has walked.

 

Probably worried about the O's having the first pick.

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Probably worried about the O's having the first pick.

Maybe he wants to stay in school another year.  

[Frobby]

16 hours ago, eddie83 said:

Rutschman needs to step up.....  0-2 today so far with 2 K’s. Just struck out with bases loaded. Has walked.

 

What is this, the first game of the year?   Yep, time for Rutschman to start feeling the pressure.    

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

What is this, the first game of the year?   Yep, time for Rutschman to start feeling the pressure.    

He had RBI single in the 9th. Oregon State fought back and won. 

[Spl51]

https://twitter.com/burkegranger/status/1096883643123941376

From today. Hopefully his raw power starts to manifest in games this season, that would pretty much make him a perfect prospect at this point.

[Spl51]

13 minutes ago, Spl51 said:

https://twitter.com/burkegranger/status/1096883643123941376

From today. Hopefully his raw power starts to manifest in games this season, that would pretty much make him a perfect prospect at this point.

Wish I knew how to embed tweets.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Spl51

[Just Regular]

Also 2 walks with yesterday's HR, so 2-for-6 with a HR and 3 BB - does math in head....333/555/1000? 

As the season gets underway, I'm basically resting on:

 

[eddie83]

2-3 with a Grand Slam today so far.