BEHOLD: Ongoing Lineup Thread, 2019

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I'm assuming Davis is out of this discussion, right?

In all seriousness, outside of him, how would the roster look different if we met your definition of defense first? I'm sure there's a track star out there somewhere ready to play CF, but Mullins has a good defensive track record minus the arm, and enough offsensive upside that he's worth playing, IMO.

Of course the major issue is Mancini, the O's have a number of guys in the minors that are superior, three of which are already on the 40.  I'd like to see if Diaz is the superior defender in Center but he of course got hurt after getting sent down to minor league camp.

As for Davis, I don't know if anyone is currently better but I'm sure someone could have been acquired if they had felt a need.

[LookinUp]

I think you're attributing a position to the Orioles, or maybe just commenters here, that they don't have.

"Defense is important" or "we're focusing on defense" are very different than saying "we're going to field the best 8 defenders we can, regardless of trade-offs."

[SteveA]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course the major issue is Mancini, the O's have a number of guys in the minors that are superior, three of which are already on the 40.  I'd like to see if Diaz is the superior defender in Center but he of course got hurt after getting sent down to minor league camp.

As for Davis, I don't know if anyone is currently better but I'm sure someone could have been acquired if they had felt a need.

Diaz got hurt?   Do you mean Hays?

[SteveA]

34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

In which case the roster shows that defense is not the main priority.

Like I said, I'm fine with it, I just don't like folks saying it's the priority when it isn't.

I've seen a lot more of you talking about "folks saying defense is the priority" than I have actually seen folks saying defense is the priority.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

11 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I think you're attributing a position to the Orioles, or maybe just commenters here, that they don't have.

"Defense is important" or "we're focusing on defense" are very different than saying "we're going to field the best 8 defenders we can, regardless of trade-offs."

Part of the problem will get solved when a certain someone isn’t getting playing time. 

[SteveA]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course the major issue is Mancini, the O's have a number of guys in the minors that are superior, three of which are already on the 40.  I'd like to see if Diaz is the superior defender in Center but he of course got hurt after getting sent down to minor league camp.

As for Davis, I don't know if anyone is currently better but I'm sure someone could have been acquired if they had felt a need.

Look, we know why Daivs is on the 25 man roster and why he is playing.   That's been rehashed to death in a million threads.   We weren't going to go out and get some slick fielding 1Bman and stick him on the bench, as much as it might be better for the team.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Look, we know why Daivs is on the 25 man roster and why he is playing.   That's been rehashed to death in a million threads.   We weren't going to go out and get some slick fielding 1Bman and stick him on the bench, as much as it might be better for the team.

Also the team isn’t trying to win this year. There are going to be warts on the roster whether we like it or not.

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Look, I'm OK with them playing there.  I just don't want folks saying defense is the priority of it isn't.

 

I think defense is a priority.  I don’t think it’s the only priority.

Giving Davis enough time to be fixed or prove to him and them that he can’t be fixed is a priority.  Giving young players reps in the minors to prove themselves ready is a priority.  Giving veterans a chance to build trade value may be a priority.  No one thing is the priority.

 

Note:  I see others have made similar points but I’ll let my comments stand.

[MikeAD]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

It's literally just one position, man.  How many teams don't have an ideal fielder at one of the 8 positions? Almost all of them. 

Shoot the Dodgers have like 12 first basemen starting every night.  

[SteveA]

26 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course the major issue is Mancini, the O's have a number of guys in the minors that are superior, three of which are already on the 40.  I'd like to see if Diaz is the superior defender in Center but he of course got hurt after getting sent down to minor league camp.

As for Davis, I don't know if anyone is currently better but I'm sure someone could have been acquired if they had felt a need.

Let's look at the big picture.   Let's compare the defensive lineup we have put out in the first four games this year with the defensive lineup we put out in the first four games last year:

C -- Joseph/Sisco vs Sucre/Severinao -- despite a couple PBs by Sucre, I think it's safe to say that we are at least as good defensively this year, many would argue better

1B -- Davis vs Davis/Manicni -- it's a wash

2B -- Schoop vs Villar -- Villar probably gets to more balls, Schoopy had the great arm and turned a great DP.   I'd say close to even, some might argue better this year.   Certainly not worse.

3B -- Beckham vs Ruiz -- Clearly better this year

SS -- Machado vs Martin -- Manny did not look very good at shortstop last April; he got better as the season went on.   Once again, we are as good or better this year.

LF -- Mancini vs Smith -- way better this year

CF -- Jones vs Mullins/Rickard/Jackson -- Mullins doesn't have a great arm; Jackson is an unknown; still I thinki it's safe to say we are better this year

RF -- Gentry/Rasmus vs Mancini/Rickard -- This is the one position where the defense has gotten worse.

 

So in a year, we have put out a worse defense at one position than last year, are demonstrably better at least 2 or 3 positions, and as good or possibly better at a few others.   That looks like mighty good improvement to me.   And I expect it to continue as the multi-year process of building a team continues.

If you want to die on the hill of "if they aren't absolutely putting the best fielder at every position then they aren't trying to improve the defnese", well, go ahead.   I look at the big picture and see improvements, even if there are still some warts.   Keeping Hays and DIaz in the minors for either developmental or service time reasons, dealing with the Davis albatross... these decisions were made at an organizational level.   If that makes yoiu think that means they don't care enough about defense, well I'd prefer to look at the improvement that DOES exist and hope for more in the future.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Let's look at the big picture.   Let's compare the defensive lineup we have put out in the first four games this year with the defensive lineup we put out in the first four games last year:

C -- Joseph/Sisco vs Sucre/Severinao -- despite a couple PBs by Sucre, I think it's safe to say that we are at least as good defensively this year, many would argue better

1B -- Davis vs Davis/Manicni -- it's a wash

2B -- Schoop vs Villar -- Villar probably gets to more balls, Schoopy had the great arm and turned a great DP.   I'd say close to even, some might argue better this year.   Certainly not worse.

3B -- Beckham vs Ruiz -- Clearly better this year

SS -- Machado vs Martin -- Manny did not look very good at shortstop last April; he got better as the season went on.   Once again, we are as good or better this year.

LF -- Mancini vs Smith -- way better this year

CF -- Jones vs Mullins/Rickard/Jackson -- Mullins doesn't have a great arm; Jackson is an unknown; still I thinki it's safe to say we are better this year

RF -- Gentry/Rasmus vs Mancini/Rickard -- This is the one position where the defense has gotten worse.

 

So in a year, we have put out a worse defense at one position than last year, are demonstrably better at least 2 or 3 positions, and as good or possibly better at a few others.   That looks like mighty good improvement to me.   And I expect it to continue as the multi-year process of building a team continues.

If you want to die on the hill of "if they aren't absolutely putting the best fielder at every position then they aren't trying to improve the defnese", well, go ahead.   I look at the big picture and see improvements, even if there are still some warts.   Keeping Hays and DIaz in the minors for either developmental or service time reasons, dealing with the Davis albatross... these decisions were made at an organizational level.   If that makes yoiu think that means they don't care enough about defense, well I'd prefer to look at the improvement that DOES exist and hope for more in the future.

I hate to give a short reply to such an extensive post but here goes.

Defense peaks early, we know this.

Odds are good a younger team is going to be better defensively.

[interloper]

45 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course the major issue is Mancini, the O's have a number of guys in the minors that are superior, three of which are already on the 40.  I'd like to see if Diaz is the superior defender in Center but he of course got hurt after getting sent down to minor league camp.

As for Davis, I don't know if anyone is currently better but I'm sure someone could have been acquired if they had felt a need.

? Who is superior to Mancini at 1B on the 40man?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, interloper said:

? Who is superior to Mancini at 1B on the 40man?

I was talking about Mancini in the outfield.

I think Davis, Trumbo and Mancini are pretty close to the same at first.  All somewhere on the slightly below side of average.

[interloper]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was talking about Mancini in the outfield.

I think Davis, Trumbo and Mancini are pretty close to the same at first.  All somewhere on the slightly below side of average.

Gotcha.

[mdbdotcom]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was talking about Mancini in the outfield.

I think Davis, Trumbo and Mancini are pretty close to the same at first.  All somewhere on the slightly below side of average.

How about Nunez at first?