Can Means become the Orioles’ version of Kuechel?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You can be a successful MLB pitcher with an 89 mph fastball.  Just like you can drive 75 mph on the interstate with a 64 ounce Big Gulp between your legs and a double Whopper in your left hand.

Wait there is something wrong with doing that? Huh, learn something new everyday. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

But, but he doesn’t throw hard. 

 

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Velo is everything!  Ain't that right, @Can_of_corn?

 

2 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

MacGregor couldn’t play today.

Hyun-jin Ryu, Zach Davies and Kyle Hendricks all say hello.

It’s not like Means has bottom of the barrel velocity.     He averaged 92.2 on his FB last night, topping out at 94.4.    Per Fangraphs, he’s averaging 92.3 for the year, 75th out of 116 pitchers who have thrown 40+ innings.   https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=40&type=17&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&page=3_30

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You can be a successful MLB pitcher with an 89 mph fastball.  Just like you can drive 75 mph on the interstate with a 64 ounce Big Gulp between your legs and a double Whopper in your left hand.

So, you agree with me!

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You can be a successful MLB pitcher with an 89 mph fastball.  Just like you can drive 75 mph on the interstate with a 64 ounce Big Gulp between your legs and a double Whopper in your left hand.

Yup, nothing wrong with that at all.

[LookinUp]

50 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

 

It’s not like Means has bottom of the barrel velocity.     He averaged 92.2 on his FB last night, topping out at 94.4.    Per Fangraphs, he’s averaging 92.3 for the year, 75th out of 116 pitchers who have thrown 40+ innings.   https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=40&type=17&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&page=3_30

I think the interesting questions are how do the O's view Means, how do other teams view him, do we think he's part of our future or is he better used to gain pieces that are part of our future? 

For the last couple of decades, we would have kept Means and elevated him beyond what should reasonably be expected. During those times, I don't think we were particularly good about understanding what could reasonably be expected in the future; certainly not as sophisticated as Sig and Elias.

I'm on the fence about what we actually should do this time around, because I do see value in a young, controllable #3-5 starting pitcher. However, I do think it's worthy of gauging other teams' interest just in case we could flip him for a high level prospect or two that could be much more valuable to a rebuild. I'm not sure what other teams think just yet, but I'd bet that if he's pitching this well by mid-July, we'll get calls. 

[maybenxtyr]

2 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Hold on while I put on my orange colored glasses.

Hall

Hays

Grenier

 

I like Hall and Grenier. I had a chance to catch a couple of games in Salisbury last weekend. Would be awesome if they could come up at 2nd and As together.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, LookinUp said:

I think the interesting questions are how do the O's view Means, how do other teams view him, do we think he's part of our future or is he better used to gain pieces that are part of our future? 

For the last couple of decades, we would have kept Means and elevated him beyond what should reasonably be expected. During those times, I don't think we were particularly good about understanding what could reasonably be expected in the future; certainly not as sophisticated as Sig and Elias.

I'm on the fence about what we actually should do this time around, because I do see value in a young, controllable #3-5 starting pitcher. However, I do think it's worthy of gauging other teams' interest just in case we could flip him for a high level prospect or two that could be much more valuable to a rebuild. I'm not sure what other teams think just yet, but I'd bet that if he's pitching this well by mid-July, we'll get calls. 

All the other teams know more about Means than we do.  The Orioles aren't fooling anyone about his value.  You always listen to offers, but I don't see how Means (at least by himself) is going to bring back more value than five years of an average, decently established #3-5 starter.

[Frobby]

Another stellar outing for Means tonight.   4 hits, 1 walk, 1 run and 5 strikeouts in 6 IP.    Too bad he got no run support.   

[Just Regular]

He got profiled a bit on this week's Statcast podcast.  They talked about his change-up rate being 3rd highest league wide behind Jason Vargas and David Price.  It was interesting to hear Price that high on that list this year.

This feels a little Bergesen-ish to me - I hope no one breaks a leg this time.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

This feels a little Bergesen-ish to me - I hope no one breaks a leg this time.

Reminds me more of Josh Towers, who also liked to work high in the zone.  He was a stud for a bit more than a month, then he wasn’t.   

I don’t mean to imply that Means will suddenly have a reversal of fortune; just that I worry about it, having seen it happen so many times.   

[OFFNY]

o

 

 

I his last 6 outings combined, Means has ceded only 3 Home Runs over 35 Innings Pitched ........ and one of those outings (and home runs) was in Denver.

 

 

18 OUTS: ) 5 Strikeouts, 4 Groundouts (Including 1 Double Play), 4 Flyouts, 2 Lineouts, 1 Popout, 1 Foulout

 

JOHN ALAN MEANS )))))) (vs. RANGERS, 6/05)

IP:lll6

H:llll 4 )l (2 Doubles,  2 Singles)   

R:lllll 1

BB:ll1 ) *

SO:ll5

Pitches: )l 108) (70 )Strikes, )38 )Balls)

2019 ERA: ))2.67  ))  60.67 IP  (18 ER) 

2019 WHIP: ))1.071  ))  60.67 IP  (65 H/BB)

2019 OPPONENTS BATTING AVG: )).220 ) (49 for 223) 

 

* )) Means also had 1 Hit Batsman

 

PITCHES BY INNING

*************************

27 ll(19 lStrikes, ll81 llBalls)

20 lll(13 lStrikes, ll71 lllBalls)

10 ll(61 llStrikes, ll41lllBalls)

81 ll(51 llStrikes, ll31 llBalls)

27 lll(17 lStrikes, l10 lllllBalls)

16 lll(10 lStrikes, lll61 llBalls)

 

o

[LA2]

The second time Means faced the White Sox, he gave up 4 earned runs in 5 innings and his ERA jumped over a run per game.

The second time he faced the Red Sox, he gave up 1 ER in 7 innings and his ERA dropped a third of a run.

[ShaneDawg85]

7 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

He got profiled a bit on this week's Statcast podcast.  They talked about his change-up rate being 3rd highest league wide behind Jason Vargas and David Price.  It was interesting to hear Price that high on that list this year.

This feels a little Bergesen-ish to me - I hope no one breaks a leg this time.

It's possible it could be.  But, to Means credit he's got a K/9 rate Brad Bergesen only wished he could have reached, and it's not terribly far off what he put up in the minors.

[ScGO's]

what is our rotation coming out of the all star break this year?  Below is the best I can think of with where our development and resources are

Means

Cashner

Bundy

Ynoa

Akin? - Seems like the next best option as he has put up strong numbers is AAA. Only other thing I can think of is maybe trying Castro as a starter again.  Is the opener an option?

 

 

 

[Philip]

An article in the Dallas news this morning went into great detail about Mike Minor And his trade value, which has only gone up. The article stated that after Keuchel and Bumgarner, Minor Is the most valuable trade piece. Means did very well last night. He has very little track record, but he does have some legitimate value. I actually think the Rangers themselves Would like to try and get him. They are on the fringe of contention, they need pitching in the worst way(They are promoting a guy from AA to start on Saturday) And they are the kind of team who would probably rather go for it than sell off. I don’t know anything about their farm, but I bet they’d be interested in John.