The Rubber Match (vs. TIGERS, 5/29)

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, jtm said:

 

It’s tough to judge any manager on 1/3 of a season.  But so far, I find him to be far to prone to over managing and forcing the issue.  The best grade I can give him so far is incomplete.  While he has little to work with, you cannot have the worst record in baseball and blame it all on the players you have.  Especially when not every player you have is replacement level player or below.  

 Most strategy is handling a pen. 

Our pen is awful. I have not agreed with couple moves recently but he has poor options to say the least.  

[jtm]

Just now, Sessh said:

I agree with that assessment of him. Hence why I said so far. He has little to work with, absolutely, but his style is what I am looking at more than anything.

Agreed back at you.

[Chavez Ravine]

4 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Disagree. But even if it wasn’t confidence, he’s struggled over the last week. The manager needs to take a positive there as a small step forward. Let the guy have a small win.

I see that, and taking him out makes perfect sense. But it also doesn’t seem too nutty to try and see if you can give your veteran bullpen guy even more confidence by reminding him he can actually pitch in the 8th inning...even if it is against the lowly Tigers hitters.

[bpilktree]

3 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Yes, lets. I don't think anyone would dispute that we don't have a great bullpen, but at least manage them with some intelligence. Givens should have never gone back out for the eighth.

Why was it that he struck out 2 of the three guys the inning before or was he got through the inning with 12 pitches and 10 strikes.  

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

They didn’t trail headed to the 9th Jim. 

Take it easy on Jim, he has been distracted by the dogs all game. 

[Sessh]

1 minute ago, bpilktree said:

Why was it that he struck out 2 of the three guys the inning before or was he got through the inning with 12 pitches and 10 strikes.  

 

That's great and all, but let him end the night on a high note instead of sending him back out to give up the game tying home run. The idea is to build him back up gradually, not tear him down more. This team isn't going anywhere this year. Proper handling of the players still matters, though.

[eddie83]

Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Take it easy on Jim, he has been distracted by the dogs all game. 

In all seriousness I don’t blame him for talking about them. Have to have some fun somehow. 

Team keeps playing hard but we keep finding ways to lose. 

[Chavez Ravine]

2 minutes ago, Sessh said:

That's great and all, but let him end the night on a high note instead of sending him back out to give up the game tying home run. The idea is to build him back up gradually, not tear him down more. This team isn't going anywhere this year. Proper handling of the players still matters, though.

When is the next opportunity we are going to get to extend him a bit? Against the Yankees? Tampa? the Red Sox?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

In all seriousness I don’t blame him for talking about them. Have to have some fun somehow. 

Team keeps playing hard but we keep finding ways to lose. 

Final Destination of baseball teams. 

[bpilktree]

2 minutes ago, Sessh said:

That's great and all, but let him end the night on a high note instead of sending him back out to give up the game tying home run. The idea is to build him back up gradually, not tear him down more. This team isn't going anywhere this year. Proper handling of the players still matters, though.

Yes cause he brought him back on because he knew he was going to give up a homer.  He brought him out because his fastball had good movement and the breaking ball looked sharp.  Bring him back out there and he keeps the good feel of the two pitches it builds more confidence.

[Sessh]

Just now, bpilktree said:

Yes cause he brought him back on because he knew he was going to give up a homer.  He brought him out because his fastball had good movement and the breaking ball looked sharp.  Bring him back out there and he keeps the good feel of the two pitches it builds more confidence.

Yeah, it worked great. Givens has been struggling horribly lately. You don't bring him back out for another inning after having a great one. What is the obsession with having him pitch multiple innings anyway? He should be built back up one inning at a time. He got a great inning in and that should have been it so he can hold his head high and build his confidence a bit.. for sure. Instead, he gives up the game tying home run. It's silly management and it was the wrong decision. Before you say hindsight is 20/20, I already said this before tonight. Givens is not being handled correctly and I will continue to maintain that as long as it's true.

[jtm]

The tough thing is we are all used to Buck for the last 8 plus seasons.  Save for one notable post season exception, Buck was a master at handling the bullpen.  Hyde seems far more robotic and predictable, and less willing to make decisions on feel, and protect his pitchers from facing one too many batters.  So far, it’s tough to defend his decisions with the results.   

[jtm]

I mean at the end of the day, we are essentially in a season of extended spring training,  Results don’t matter, but the game to game decision of the manager have to be measured and judged.  So far, as I said, at best Hyde’s grade is incomplete.  Hope he improves, because if he doesn’t he will be a liability for this team when they get above replacement level major league talent. 

[52520Andrew]

We aren't going to be competitive until 2022 at the earliest, that gives 2 years and change to evaluate Hyde's bullpen decisions before it matters. I am not going to knock him too much for trying to get some extra outs on a guy who looked really good in the 7th, especially with a pen as bad as ours has been.

[Philip]

Well, I’ve been busy and haven’t been able to follow the game, and I see the results and I’m sad.