Villar Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas

[weams]

25 minutes ago, Spl51 said:

I'm definitely in the camp of people who think people should be given second chances, but in today's environment that seems to be a controversial opinion. After reading Epstein's statement, I wouldn't be opposed to it, and Hyde could maybe be a character witness. I just feel like the negative PR from it wouldn't be worth it, especially after we got rid of Villar.

[gtown]

I'd be very much against signing Russell, not for baseball reasons.

[Number5]

The Astros have been dealing with this kind of thing.  I wonder how the people we hired away from them feel about this issue.

[weams]

3 minutes ago, weams said:

Play six degree of Kevin Bacon with this guy. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, weams said:

Play six degree of Kevin Bacon with this guy. 

The Untouchables "Ma Barker and Her Boys"  --> The Untouchables

The Untouchables - Stephen Burrows--> She's Having a Baby---> Kevin Bacon

[PaulFolk]

20 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, I really don't care.  Long ago, I stopped looking at athletes as role models and examples of how to behave.  We were fortunate and blessed to have a guy like Cal Ripken...and for the older folks around here, Brooks Robinson.  Unfortunately they can't all be that way, though.

This is a false equivalency. You don't have to be Cal Ripken or Brooks Robinson to, you know, not be a domestic abuser. You can't just group Russell into the category of, "Hey, nobody's perfect, you know?"

[Roll Tide]

14 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

See, I'm just the opposite.  I couldn't care less about whether we win 62 games instead of 57, and we're 10% more bearable to watch.  Just get us back to competitive baseball as quickly as possible.  

These are losing, throw away seasons, and are not important in the least outside of how quickly we can rebuild and get back into winning again.  

Just curious ... Are you a season ticket holder?

 

[Morgan423]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Just curious ... Are you a season ticket holder?

 

No... but I lived in Tennessee for a long time.  Just moved back to Maryland a couple of years ago.

[Roll Tide]

Just now, Morgan423 said:

No... but I lived in Tennessee for a long time.  Just moved back to Maryland a couple of years ago.

Do you think you would feel differently about the situation if you were spending a good amount of your entertainment dollar on tickets?

[Orange King]

The O's are definitely going to miss Villar's bat and his speed, but watching him and Martin out there together was kind of painful, there seemed to be many double plays that shoulda been made, but weren't. 10 million for a guy to play below average second base would only be "almost worth it", to me, if he duplicates his offensive play of last year. But the two years before 2019 were below average and I think the rest of the league was skeptical his next year would be as good as last year. .. Should they have signed him for a +1.8 WAR year? I would have, but it's not my money.

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, Orange King said:

The O's are definitely going to miss Villar's bat and his speed, but watching him and Martin out there together was kind of painful, there seemed to be many double plays that shoulda been made, but weren't. 10 million for a guy to play below average second base would only be "almost worth it", to me, if he duplicates his offensive play of last year. But the two years before 2019 were below average and I think the rest of the league was skeptical his next year would be as good as last year. .. Should they have signed him for a +1.8 WAR year? I would have, but it's not my money.

Villar's WAR last season was 2.7 (1.4 for Brewers & 1.3 Orioles)

[Three Run Homer]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, but they really didn't.

Billy Beane said it best, I can't find the quote.  But it's something along the lines of "If you're not competing, you're rebuilding." I can't do the quote justice but the essence of it was that if you're not gunning for a playoff spot, you're figuring out a way to get there.  And anything in between is a waste.  

Non competitive baseball isn't a problem.  The Orioles weren't competitive in 2018, not by a long shot...but there was this illusion that since they had some recognizable names, since they had a little bit of starpower and a respectable manager that they COULD be.  But it didn't work out and they were a disaster.  And they weren't competitive last year after selling off whatever starpower they had in 2018.

The idea that teams try to sell their fans of "Hey, we've got some good talent!  We can COMPETE this year!" is a problem.  The idea that the Orioles were acting like the 2018 team (before the season) was a playoff contender when anyone with half a brain knew that it was a .500 team at best was insulting.  That's false advertising.  I think we'd feel like we got slapped in the face if Elias said the 2020 Orioles are going to be aiming for a playoff berth.  

Instead we act insulted and clutch our pearls when we know that the 2020 Orioles aren't going to be competitive anyway.  And act like it's a travesty that one player that's fun to watch got traded when in reality he might have been the difference between winning 62 and 65 games next year.  

Saving 10 million is fine if that money is allocated elsewhere...or even if it's just socked away for a rainy day.  And the offseason is just getting started, maybe Elias has his eyes set on some other moves.  Who knows.

But to act like a non competitive team just made an affront to the game of baseball because they traded one of their few good players and will most likely trot out a no-namer in his place for the upcoming season...is the height of pearl clutching.

In a way, I don't envy Elias' position.  The diehard fans understand what's up, they know that this rebuild process is going to take awhile.  But it's the people that still think Adam Jones is a good ballplayer and don't understand why he wasn't brought back that are up in arms and don't know what's going on and are the most vocal about it, which is annoying.

You seem to have me mistaken for a stupid casual fan who doesn't understand why the O's can't sign Gerrit Cole and Anthony Rendon and go to the World Series next year.  I agreed with letting Adam Jones leave.  I agree with the overall direction that the Orioles franchise has taken in the last two seasons.  I'm all in favor of rebuilding, when it means trading current assets for legitimate future assets.  

But damn it, I am not in favor of giving away a player and getting a token prospect in return, just in order to dump a salary.  That is not rebuilding.  That's just sucking and being cheap for it's own sake.  There is no upside to this trade, no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow if we are just patient enough.  We gave up a good player and got nothing back to show for it that will help us win later.  This is not a matter of discerning fans versus dumb fans.  This is rebuilding with honor versus fan abuse.  

[Three Run Homer]

Everyone on this site who thinks that this trade was some brilliant subtle masterstroke and pats themselves on the back for being "thinking man's baseball fans" should ask themselves why every national sportswriter who has commented on this trade, even at the "smart" websites like fangraphs, thinks that it's a disgrace from the Orioles' point of view.  

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Whether or not you agree that signing Russell should be a PR nightmare, that doesn’t change the fact that it would be. 100%. I’m not sure exactly how you quantify the effects of a PR disaster, but if they think about signing him, they need to expect that and price the cost into the decision making process.

I’m against it personally, but if you are for it, you have to go eyes wide open into the situation, knowing the type of blowback it’d get.

I don’t know why we would sign him.  We aren’t trying to win.  I don’t see the need to bring embarrassment on to the franchise for no reason.  Let him sign with another team.

[Luke-OH]

16 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Everyone on this site who thinks that this trade was some brilliant subtle masterstroke and pats themselves on the back for being "thinking man's baseball fans" should ask themselves why every national sportswriter who has commented on this trade, even at the "smart" websites like fangraphs, thinks that it's a disgrace from the Orioles' point of view.  

Is anyone doing that? Praising it as a masterstroke that is.