Poll: Grading Elias' Tenure Thus Far

[scOtt]

4 hours ago, UpstateNYfan said:

Yep, most would stay silent. So, it's ok??? Really, you are on that moral plane? Nice to know and congrats.

Questioning Frobby's morals? Really? At the very least I question your judgement!

[atomic]

On 2/15/2020 at 11:17 AM, Frobby said:

I am going to assume that Elias wasn’t directly involved, but was aware of what was going on and didn’t do anything about it.    You could second guess his silence, but I agree with Corn that most would have done the same thing and I’m not holding it against Elias.    It’s now on him to ensure that nothing similar happens on his watch in Baltimore.    That’s his responsibility.

Putting aside any moral issue, there’s the practical issue of whether the use of cutting edge analytics and forward thinking methods actually helps in player selection, development and coaching, if the game is played honestly.      I think it does, and that it’s very important that the O’s have come out of the Stone Age and are looking to become a leader in this regard, not merely a club that meets industry standards.    But the proof will be in the pudding.    And I note, real pudding takes time for the ingredient to mix, to come to a boil, and to thicken.    And it tastes a lot better than instant pudding.   That’s why I’ll be patient in waiting for Elias’ work to come to fruition.   

 

I would say looking at 2012 to 2014 Orioles drafted better than the Astros.  Other years too early to say.  I think people overrate Astros drafting.

[sportsfan8703]

The scary thought is even though the Astros cheated, they still didn’t have to compete in the AL East with an I balanced schedule.

 

[sportsfan8703]

It’s really orange colored glasses to think that Elias, Sig, and anyone else we hired from HOU, weren’t somehow involved in what happened in HOU. Whether they knew and didn’t say anything, or participated in someway. 
 

We’re starting a rebuild, and that foundation is with cheaters. It’s flying under the radar now, but what happens when we get a little higher profile, and people really start to dig and ask questions?
 

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It’s really orange colored glasses to think that Elias, Sig, and anyone else we hired from HOU, weren’t somehow involved in what happened in HOU. Whether they knew and didn’t say anything, or participated in someway. 
 

We’re starting a rebuild, and that foundation is with cheaters. It’s flying under the radar now, but what happens when we get a little higher profile, and people really start to dig and ask questions?
 

Are you suggesting that Elias shouldn't be able to work in MLB because he might have known about the sign stealing?

[Camden_yardbird]

5 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It’s really orange colored glasses to think that Elias, Sig, and anyone else we hired from HOU, weren’t somehow involved in what happened in HOU. Whether they knew and didn’t say anything, or participated in someway. 
 

We’re starting a rebuild, and that foundation is with cheaters. It’s flying under the radar now, but what happens when we get a little higher profile, and people really start to dig and ask questions?
 

I agree that they will at some point have to answer those questions, but if it's two or three years down the road it wont be as big a deal (people have short memories).  As long as they didnt immediately come here and start those practices up (and they clearly didn't) I dont see a problem.

That said none of the last will matter if Elias is just another failed executive.  And unless he starts adding appreciable talent to this team through means other than the draft he will be a failed executive pretty quickly.

[sportsfan8703]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are you suggesting that Elias shouldn't be able to work in MLB because he might have known about the sign stealing?

When will the full story come out?  It eventually will, someone will spill all the beans.  It's just really naive to think that Elias and Sig not only knew nothing, but also weren't contributors.  

Then again, I'm cool with winning and cheating.  Just being realistic that Elias and Sig were likely involved more than the 0% that people on here are willing to admit.  

[CallMeBrooksie]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

When will the full story come out?  It eventually will, someone will spill all the beans.  It's just really naive to think that Elias and Sig not only knew nothing, but also weren't contributors.  

It's really not naive at all. They both had almost nothing at all to do with day-to-day strategies of the big-league club. It's actually a stretch by an objective standards to assume that they were contributors to the sign-stealing scheme. 

Whether they knew about it... maybe. But I don't care. For all we know, that may be the primary reason that Sig left the org without another job offer in hand.

[Redskins Rick]

55 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

When will the full story come out?  It eventually will, someone will spill all the beans.  It's just really naive to think that Elias and Sig not only knew nothing, but also weren't contributors.  

Then again, I'm cool with winning and cheating.  Just being realistic that Elias and Sig were likely involved more than the 0% that people on here are willing to admit.  

Based on what, your own belief system?

What about proof?

Elias and Sig was more on the scouting side of the house, so why do you assume without a reasonable explanation?

[Redskins Rick]

12 hours ago, scOtt said:

Questioning Frobby's morals? Really? At the very least I question your judgement!

This place continues to spiral downhill.

Farking crazy.

[Going Underground]

I think they both knew what was going on. Involved in actual scheme?  

Sig on Luhnow:

“I’ve always had a good relationship with Jeff (Luhnow). He hasn’t just been my boss, but he’s been like my best friend for 14 years.

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/11/sig-mejdal-talks-about-his-arrival-in-baltimore-and-the-work-that-awaits.html

 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

When will the full story come out?  It eventually will, someone will spill all the beans.  It's just really naive to think that Elias and Sig not only knew nothing, but also weren't contributors.  

Then again, I'm cool with winning and cheating.  Just being realistic that Elias and Sig were likely involved more than the 0% that people on here are willing to admit.  

I see no reason at all to think Elias was involved.   Simply put, the major league team wasn’t in any way within his realm of responsibility.    I do think he probably heard about it.   Sig, on the other hand, oversaw the analytics department, and we know that group was involved in Codebreaker so he might be more culpable.   Though I’ve heard it said that Codebreaker itself wasn’t against the rules, it was just the way it was used in-game.

[sportsfan8703]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

I see no reason at all to think Elias was involved.   Simply put, the major league team wasn’t in any way within his realm of responsibility.    I do think he probably heard about it.   Sig, on the other hand, oversaw the analytics department, and we know that group was involved in Codebreaker so he might be more culpable.   Though I’ve heard it said that Codebreaker itself wasn’t against the rules, it was just the way it was used in-game.

@Frobby I have nothing but respect for you but...

1.  Everyone in the field knows that everyone lies in Court. Court is all about W’s baby!!!  You’re not the only insider. Still love you though. 
 

2.  To think that Elias and Sig had no knowledge of the ongoings, let alone were active participants, is the most naive stuff I’ve ever heard. 
 

I want to win. Honestly, I don’t care, but Sig and Elias did stuff. 

[DoobyDoo]

9 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

@Frobby I have nothing but respect for you but...

1.  Everyone in the field knows that everyone lies in Court. Court is all about W’s baby!!!  You’re not the only insider. Still love you though. 
 

2.  To think that Elias and Sig had no knowledge of the ongoings, let alone were active participants, is the most naive stuff I’ve ever heard. 
 

I want to win. Honestly, I don’t care, but Sig and Elias did stuff. 

My question for you is why are you so sure that they were involved? Just because they were part of the Astros organization is not a good enough reason. 

 

Just thinking of this in a standard business organizational sense, it really doesn’t make sense for Elias to be directly involved in an analytics based scheme that affected the major league club. His department, as I understand it, was with minor league scouting, player development and the draft. Why would he cross departments to have a say in something that affects the major league/analytics department? What kind of involvement do you think he would even have had? 

 

Since codebreaker itself wasn’t illegal, it really seems like the only kind of involvement that could be punishable would be if either Elias or Sig were the ones who suggested or implemented its real-time use in games. I see that as being extremely unlikely in Elias’ case. Since Sig was the head of the analytics department there, he’s much more likely to be implicated, but again I think the only way he’d get into trouble over it is if there’s proof that he was the one who suggested or helped implement its use in real time in major league games. 

[atomic]

2 hours ago, DoobyDoo said:

My question for you is why are you so sure that they were involved? Just because they were part of the Astros organization is not a good enough reason. 

 

Just thinking of this in a standard business organizational sense, it really doesn’t make sense for Elias to be directly involved in an analytics based scheme that affected the major league club. His department, as I understand it, was with minor league scouting, player development and the draft. Why would he cross departments to have a say in something that affects the major league/analytics department? What kind of involvement do you think he would even have had? 

 

Since codebreaker itself wasn’t illegal, it really seems like the only kind of involvement that could be punishable would be if either Elias or Sig were the ones who suggested or implemented its real-time use in games. I see that as being extremely unlikely in Elias’ case. Since Sig was the head of the analytics department there, he’s much more likely to be implicated, but again I think the only way he’d get into trouble over it is if there’s proof that he was the one who suggested or helped implement its use in real time in major league games. 

They have been accused of cheating with tracman in the minors.  There is zero chance that Elias and Sig did not know what was going on. As something like 12 teams reported the Astros were cheating it wasn’t much of a secret and they were major executives in the organization that was actually cheating.  As I find tanking to be cheating I don’t think it is much of a stretch to believe they were involved. And if you read Elias statements about the situation before the suspension of Lunhow they were very supportive of the Astros management.