The "no matter what else they do" thread

[Sports Guy]

If that's true, he'd be at 70%, which depending on who you believe, is still at the breaking point. But if you're including pickoffs, you'd have to factor in everything else I mentioned. So either way, I doubt he's costing us in that regard.

No you wouldn't...Many pickoffs are the result of a player leaning towards second and were going to steal.

Taking an extra base or something like that, while obviously important, is totally different.

And really, if you want to have it your way, those things should be on the same level as SB% as well.

And we also aren't talking about his other baserunning blunders, which don't fall under the SB%/pickoffs category.

And, an out on the bases is more costly anyway.

[mweb]

No you wouldn't...Many pickoffs are the result of a player leaning towards second and were going to steal.

Taking an extra base or something like that, while obviously important, is totally different.

And really, if you want to have it your way, those things should be on the same level as SB% as well.

And we also aren't talking about his other baserunning blunders, which don't fall under the SB%/pickoffs category.

And, an out on the bases is more costly anyway.

I'm talking about taking an extra base because of a botched pickoff, if you're going to take away credit when he's picked off, you have to give credit when he gets an extra base due to a pickoff attempt. And also if he's stealing a base, the ball goes into the OF, and he gets an extra base out of it.

I'm not talking about stretching a single into a double here, or other normal baserunning acts.

[Satyr3206]

No you wouldn't...Many pickoffs are the result of a player leaning towards second and were going to steal.

Taking an extra base or something like that, while obviously important, is totally different.

And really, if you want to have it your way, those things should be on the same level as SB% as well.

And we also aren't talking about his other baserunning blunders, which don't fall under the SB%/pickoffs category.

And, an out on the bases is more costly anyway.

Just curious, are there any players you like? Or any that meet your standards, past, present, or future?

[Sports Guy]

I'm talking about taking an extra base because of a botched pickoff, if you're going to take away credit when he's picked off, you have to give credit when he gets an extra base due to a pickoff attempt. And also if he's stealing a base, the ball goes into the OF, and he gets an extra base out of it.

I'm not talking about stretching a single into a double here, or other normal baserunning acts.

Oh ok, i gotcha...How many times has that happened? Is that ever documented?

[Fan4Life]

Just curious, are there any players you like? Or any that meet your standards, past, present, or future?

If I may... to name a few, he really liked Kotchman, spoke highly of Adrian Gonzales as well as Carlos Quentin, all of whom we'd be thrilled to have playing for us now.

[Fan4Life]

I agree it may be in our best interest to trade BROB but I think SG is greatly exaggerating the decline that BROB will going through as he ages in the next 2-3 years. 32 and 33 is not old, and that would take him through 2011, likely the end of year 2 of his 4 year deal if we don't buy out 2009. BROB won't be that bad at 34 and 35 to where he wouldn't still be valuable to us.

I agree with this and prefer to extend him. However, if the FO isn't going to add pitching either through trade or FA signings, as well as missing out on Tex and Dunn, they should trade everyone they can except Nick and Adam.

[SteveA]

My answers:

1) Trade or extend BRob. Can't go into the season with his status unknown.

1a) If we trade him we need a viable ML 2Bman on the team next year, we don't want to go through next year at 2B what we went through at SS this year.

2) Extend Markakis.

3) Let Millar walk.

4) Find a viable major league shortstop both offensively and with the glove, even if it's just a short term solution.

Those are the only musts. I will be extremely unhappy on Opening Day if those 4 haven't been accomplished. There's lots more things I would certainly like to see. But I consider those four essential.

[Sports Guy]

I agree it may be in our best interest to trade BROB but I think SG is greatly exaggerating the decline that BROB will going through as he ages in the next 2-3 years. 32 and 33 is not old, and that would take him through 2011, likely the end of year 2 of his 4 year deal if we don't buy out 2009. BROB won't be that bad at 34 and 35 to where he wouldn't still be valuable to us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2034

[Sports Guy]

BTW, let's not forget that we could trade BRob and then re-sign him after next year if we haven't figured out second base.

[JimDH]

Huh? How can terrible be any way other than bad?

I won't debate the English language with a 62k poster. But the closest synonyms to terrible include awesome, fearful and powerful. As in "Terrible Swift Sword" or Ivan the Terrible. Terrible can also mean of very poor quality, but more properly used describing a thing rather then a person.

[RLB29]

Magic wand? Its called the truth. If you lose 100 points of OPS at second(because of the loss of BRob) but gain 150 points at first, then haven't you made up for that loss? No you don't...Again, second baseman have been know to dropoff in their early to mid 30s...We don't know what we will get out of him.

Aren't you contradicting yourself a little here? In the first statement, you call it the "truth" that you expect to gain more from first than you lose from second, but in the second statement you say "We don't know what we will get out of him". Since neither of us know what will happen next year and beyond, your "truth" is just an opinion just like mine.

I would rather have two players (Roberts/Huff) with known track records for the next 3/4 years than several unknowns with potential because I don't believe that our farm system is a barren as you might. If you add Tex into this lineup, we can compete with any team, and if the pitchers develop, we can compete and win by '10 or '11.

[mweb]

Oh ok, i gotcha...How many times has that happened? Is that ever documented?

I have no idea, I can't even find out how many times Brob has been picked off this year.

[mweb]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2034

That's funny because Alomar was my guess before I clicked on the link.

I do agree with Ravenbird that he is an extreme example, plus his age 33 season was his best in terms of OPS+.

[El Gordo]

That's funny because Alomar was my guess before I clicked on the link.

I do agree with Ravenbird that he is an extreme example, plus his age 33 season was his best in terms of OPS+.

He had also played 13 full ML seasons prior. If BRob has his best year in his 14th ML season I'll be exstatic.

[davearm]

BRob should be dealt regardless if we get Tex or not.

I think BRob can net 1-2 players that are more value than the Cubs package we were offered last year...I don't think we can get 4 or 5 players for him but BRob for Kemp wouldn't surprise me...Or something like that.

Roberts isn't THAT great and you will be getting the BRob that is 31-34 years old in that time frame. A lot of GREAT second baseman(which BRob isn't) have fallen off by that time in their careers.

His defense is already slipping and his SB% this year is hurting us more than helping us.

If his offense just goes back to an 800ish OPS and his defense continues to slip and his SB % stays poor, he is borderline average(all around) for us.

The BRob of RIGHT NOW is hard to replace...The BRob of 2010-2012 won't be IMO.

BTW, his production can be made up in other areas of the team.

These two posts crack me up.

A borderline average, declining thirtysomething 2B heading into his walk year is worth a young player the caliber of Matt Kemp?

Take the Cubs' offer of a year ago, divide by two, and that puts you in the ballpark of what Roberts might be worth now, with half as much time remaining on his contract. Still want to trade him? Somehow I doubt it.