Broadcasting changes

[weams]

7 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

No Adam Pohl? Geez.

Adam is fantastic. 

[Moose Milligan]

11 hours ago, PaulFolk said:

It's strange that I have to be the one to tell you this, but...not all women have the same voice. It's true! They have different tones and pitches and everything.

That's like saying, "Cris Collinsworth's voice annoys me, so I don't like men's voices." Sexist, backward, unprogressive, I suppose. But mainly it's just dumb.

Thanks, Paul!  As a sports fan I've been conditioned to hear male broadcasters in football, baseball and basketball for all of my life, so forgive me if I don't like hearing a female in the booth.  On the flip side of the coin, I find it weird when there's a male sideline reporter but I'm sure you don't have an issue with that.  

Freely admitted it to being sexist, backward, unprogressive, but then you had to call it dumb, thanks for that!  I'll strive to make sure that my personal tastes are more in line with progressive social agendas at all times.  

 

[PaulFolk]

25 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Thanks, Paul!  As a sports fan I've been conditioned to hear male broadcasters in football, baseball and basketball for all of my life, so forgive me if I don't like hearing a female in the booth.  On the flip side of the coin, I find it weird when there's a male sideline reporter but I'm sure you don't have an issue with that.  

Freely admitted it to being sexist, backward, unprogressive, but then you had to call it dumb, thanks for that!  I'll strive to make sure that my personal tastes are more in line with progressive social agendas at all times.  

 

It is dumb, and you're better than that. You're making generalizations about someone you know nothing about (Newman) based solely on her gender, because you heard, what, two other female broadcasters and didn't like them? How is that different from saying, "I had a female boss once and didn't like her, so I don't think women should be bosses."? Or "my baseball team had a black manager once and he wasn't good, so we should stick to white managers"?

Melanie Newman isn't the same person as Suzyn Waldman or Jessica Mendoza or anyone else. Maybe you'll like her PBP, maybe you won't, but that should be based on her own merits, not what you've been "conditioned" to. Your ears can get accustomed to a female voice. It's not that hard.

[glenn__davis]

43 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Thanks, Paul!  As a sports fan I've been conditioned to hear male broadcasters in football, baseball and basketball for all of my life, so forgive me if I don't like hearing a female in the booth.  On the flip side of the coin, I find it weird when there's a male sideline reporter but I'm sure you don't have an issue with that.  

Freely admitted it to being sexist, backward, unprogressive, but then you had to call it dumb, thanks for that!  I'll strive to make sure that my personal tastes are more in line with progressive social agendas at all times.  

 

How un-woke of you Moose!

For the record I agree with you - it's one of those odd things where I think absolutely, there's no reason a female shouldn't be able to do that job, they can be just as knowledgeable and engaging as men.  And yet my personal preference would be for a male to be in the role.  Perhaps over time that will change.

[Ohfan67]

40 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Thanks, Paul!  As a sports fan I've been conditioned to hear male broadcasters in football, baseball and basketball for all of my life, so forgive me if I don't like hearing a female in the booth.  On the flip side of the coin, I find it weird when there's a male sideline reporter but I'm sure you don't have an issue with that.  

Freely admitted it to being sexist, backward, unprogressive, but then you had to call it dumb, thanks for that!  I'll strive to make sure that my personal tastes are more in line with progressive social agendas at all times.  

 

Insert black for woman and this could be an almost verbatim “I’m not racist” conversation from the not so distant past. When I was a kid they said this about black quarterbacks, black coaches, etc in football. Some people said more offensive things but nicer folks stated it in these terms. I’m not trying to hammer you and not saying your a bad guy or anything, most if not all of us have some sexist biases. If you say a woman can’t do a job because they are a woman and the job doesn’t require producing sperm, then it is probably a sexist opinion. What you described is sexism. Time to be open minded. 

[glenn__davis]

8 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Insert black for woman and this could be an almost verbatim “I’m not racist” conversation from the not so distant past. When I was a kid they said this about black quarterbacks, black coaches, etc in football. Some people said more offensive things but nicer folks stated it in these terms. I’m not trying to hammer you and not saying your a bad guy or anything, most if not all of us have some sexist biases. If you say a woman can’t do a job because they are a woman and the job doesn’t require producing sperm, then it is probably a sexist opinion. What you described is sexism. Time to be open minded. 

This is a bad comparison, and Moose hasn't said any of those things.

He never said a woman COULDN'T do the job.  Just that it was his preference to hear a male doing the job.  And that's a perfectly valid preference, but I would imagine that Moose would also agree that women should have a right to pursue those jobs if she's qualified (don't want to put words in your mouth though Moose.)

Regarding black QBs/black coaches, that wasn't a matter of preference.  There were people who legitimately thought that blacks didn't have the intelligence/fortitude/whatever to handle the position.  That was indeed racist and far more nefarious than what Moose is describing.

Anyway - in before the luck lol.  Good luck to all the "new" faces!

[PaulFolk]

14 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

This is a bad comparison, and Moose hasn't said any of those things.

He never said a woman COULDN'T do the job.  Just that it was his preference to hear a male doing the job.  And that's a perfectly valid preference, but I would imagine that Moose would also agree that women should have a right to pursue those jobs if she's qualified (don't want to put words in your mouth though Moose.)

Regarding black QBs/black coaches, that wasn't a matter of preference.  There were people who legitimately thought that blacks didn't have the intelligence/fortitude/whatever to handle the position.  That was indeed racist and far more nefarious than what Moose is describing.

Anyway - in before the luck lol.  Good luck to all the "new" faces!

He didn't say he preferred male broadcasters, he flat-out said he "didn't like" female broadcasters. That's a very different thing.

15 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I simply don't like the sound of a woman's voice in the broadcast booth.  Don't like Jessica Mendoza.  Don't like Suzyn Waldman's voice.  I'm not saying they don't know what they're talking about, I just don't like how it sounds.  Mendoza has made some good points, provided good insights, still don't really care for her.  

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

forgive me if I don't like hearing a female in the booth.

Words matter. If he had just said something like, "It'll be weird hearing a female announcer after hearing male announcers all my life," I wouldn't have had an issue with that. Instead he phrased it as a negative generalization of all female announcers, including the one the Orioles just hired whom he's never heard in his life.

Would Moose agree that women have the right to pursue PBP jobs? I don't know, but he seems to think the Orioles shouldn't hire one, based on this:

22 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That said, I hope she's not doing the play by play.  

[accinfo]

16 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Tell you what, the one thing that is clear from reading this thread is that announcers are certainly "personal taste" for the viewer/listener. Some people love a guy/gal, some dislike them. Kudos to the Orioles bring some different perspectives. Personally I hope some of the new announces will delve into the stat cast era of statistics and not worry about how many "steaks" a player has.

Saying that, it must be a balance for there a lot of older fans who don't understand or want to understand these new stats. No offense to anyone, but the fact there is little chance of a Hunter/Bordick booth made my day. 

Nothing worse then having our announcers act like you just collected a game winning HR in the bottom of the 9th when it's a meaningless home run down 10-2 in the 8th inning. The appropriate amount of excitement for the moment was a struggle or Hunter. 

I also hope none of the new announcers will come from that same "describe everything the TV camera shows" to the TV viewer who is watching the same thing. Also, during replays, don't describe what happened again, provide actual analysis or if there is none to add, allow it to just happen. 

Either way, I look forward to the new crews to see what they add.

I can't agree with this any more.  Hunter has always annoyed me on TV or radio.  Bordick seems like a nice guy but he just doesn't add anything entertaining.  He goes out of his way to not offend anyone.  He did a segment on 105.7 yesterday and said Chris Davis "looks like the crusher again".  Whatever that means.  

[Ohfan67]

18 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

This is a bad comparison, and Moose hasn't said any of those things.

He never said a woman COULDN'T do the job.  Just that it was his preference to hear a male doing the job.  And that's a perfectly valid preference, but I would imagine that Moose would also agree that women should have a right to pursue those jobs if she's qualified (don't want to put words in your mouth though Moose.)

Regarding black QBs/black coaches, that wasn't a matter of preference.  There were people who legitimately thought that blacks didn't have the intelligence/fortitude/whatever to handle the position.  That was indeed racist and far more nefarious than what Moose is describing.

Anyway - in before the luck lol.  Good luck to all the "new" faces!

It’s not a bad comparison. I heard people say those things. As you note some people said worse things, eugenic crap even, but some people did say that about football and certainly many have used very similar Words to discuss blacks and women in all kinds of jobs. He said the woman couldn’t do the job to his satisfaction. Basically That he was not comfortable having a woman do that job. Exchange black for woman and the bias is clear. Again I don’t know moose personally but he seems like a great guy and if I remember correctly he is sensitive to racism in the way fans perceive players etc. These are biases that basically all of us have to some extent, but they basically don’t go away if you don’t see them for what they are. Again, I’m not dumping on Moose, but the attitude is sexist. It’s a cultural sexual bias. Again, exchange black for woman and it would be racist. Justifying a racial preference by saying blacks and whites sound different and it’s just about voice would be the same I’m not racist justification. 

[Frobby]

I don’t agree with Moose’s position, but I understand his point.    I’m sure it’s not going to affect how often he watches or listens to games, and hopefully she will do a good job and those who don’t think they’ll like listening to her will find out that they do in fact like her.    

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, PaulFolk said:

It is dumb, and you're better than that. You're making generalizations about someone you know nothing about (Newman) based solely on her gender, because you heard, what, two other female broadcasters and didn't like them? How is that different from saying, "I had a female boss once and didn't like her, so I don't think women should be bosses."? Or "my baseball team had a black manager once and he wasn't good, so we should stick to white managers"?

Melanie Newman isn't the same person as Suzyn Waldman or Jessica Mendoza or anyone else. Maybe you'll like her PBP, maybe you won't, but that should be based on her own merits, not what you've been "conditioned" to. Your ears can get accustomed to a female voice. It's not that hard.

 

53 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Insert black for woman and this could be an almost verbatim “I’m not racist” conversation from the not so distant past. When I was a kid they said this about black quarterbacks, black coaches, etc in football. Some people said more offensive things but nicer folks stated it in these terms. I’m not trying to hammer you and not saying your a bad guy or anything, most if not all of us have some sexist biases. If you say a woman can’t do a job because they are a woman and the job doesn’t require producing sperm, then it is probably a sexist opinion. What you described is sexism. Time to be open minded. 

Yeah, no. Paul, YOU'RE better than that.  It's very different because in your female boss scenario, you're making a comparison based on a female having a position of power and influence on day to day work responsibilities.  Comparing someone I'd hypothetically have to answer to (and not that I should have to justify it or that you even care, but my favorite boss ever was female) and have to work with in order to make a living wage isn't even remotely in the same stratosphere as a preference on who'd I'd like to call a baseball game on the radio while I'm driving home from work.  That's not a valid comparison.  Slightly less poor is your comparison about having a "black manager" who was bad and therefore sticking to white managers.  

Never said women couldn't be broadcasters.  Never said women shouldn't be broadcasters.  In fact I'm pretty sure that I said that the new broadcaster has to know her stuff in order to get where she is.  But that doesn't keep both of you from making leaps in conclusions and putting words in my mouth and telling me what I need to get "accustomed to," because it doesn't jive with your social agendas.  In regards to being open minded, of course I'm going to listen.  It's not like I'm going to boycott the games if she's in the booth.  C'mon.

Guys, I'm not apologizing for a personal preference and what I'd like to listen to.  It's as simple as that. 

[Dreadnought]

I come to bury Hunter, not praise him.  He was always awful.  A well-informed baseball fan is not interested in hearing from a guy who sounds like a Top-40 DJ or a car salesman trying put me in a car.  HIs praise of utility infielders alone was vomit-inducing.  One of Angelos's original sins was driving away Jon Miller - a radio superstar - and replacing him with..........Hunter.    The minor league correspondent of this website - i believe it was Mr. Hoffman? - during the period around 1998-1999 -used to drive between Bowie, Frederick, maybe Delmarva and Aberdeen during those summer baseball seasons.  He described his pain at having to listen to the fool Hunter instead of  Miller.  I know how he felt.  You never got the feeling from Miller that your intelligence was being insulted the way Hunter operated.   Good riddance.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Dreadnought

[Frobby]

For what it’s worth, here’s a 6-1/2 minute highlight reel of Melanie Newman doing various play-by-play and sideline assignments (first minute or so is all male voices talking about her, but it eventually turns to her work).     My assessment: voice is pleasant enough, delivery seems very professional, and seems to know her stuff.   I hope she does get to do some PBP this year so I can form a more detailed opinion.   

https://www.melanielynnen.com

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Dreadnought said:

The minor league correspondent of this website - i believe it was Mr. Hoffman? - during the period around 1998-1999 -used to drive between Bowie, Frederick, maybe Delmarva and Aberdeen during those summer baseball seasons.  He described his pain at having to listen to the fool Hunter instead of  Miller.  

Wow, you are a longtime member of this site, aren’t you?    I’d completely forgotten about Mr. Hoffman.   Wasn’t he a retired law enforcement officer or something?   I’ve forgotten his first name, so maybe @Tony-OH, @weamsor @PaulFolkcan refresh our memories.     He loved to report on the guys who weren’t really prospects but baseball rats.    Good times!

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, Dreadnought said:

I come to bury Hunter, not praise him.  He was always awful.  A well-informed baseball fan is not interested in hearing from a guy who sounds like a Top-40 DJ or a car salesman trying put me in a car.  HIs praise of utility infielders alone was vomit-inducing.  One of Angelos's original sins was driving away Jon Miller - a radio superstar - and replacing him with..........Hunter.    The minor league correspondent of this website - i believe it was Mr. Hoffman? - during the period around 1998-1999 -used to drive between Bowie, Frederick, maybe Delmarva and Aberdeen during those summer baseball seasons.  He described his pain at having to listen to the fool Hunter instead of  Miller.  I know how he felt.  You never got the feeling from Miller that your intelligence was being insulted the way Hunter operated.   Good riddance.

Hard to disagree with any of it, although I thought he was alright on the radio.

If we're going back, I also couldn't stand Reghi.