Pitchers: stock up/down thoughts?

[Tony-OH]

44 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d say nobody’s stock is really affected by their first outing in spring training.    Not many encouraging outings so far, though.   

This. Gotta get a few outings under your belt before you start making stock up or down calls unless velocity or stuff is way down. Obviously there have been a couple of bad performances, particularly today, but it's too early to draw any conclusions from what we've seen. 

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm curious if we will see Givens.

Anyone else see a deleted thread this morning?

No, What was that all about?

[eddie83]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm curious if we will see Givens.

Anyone else see a deleted thread this morning?

Yes.... last night I think.  Thought maybe I was losing my mind. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

No, What was that all about?

Givens. 

Rumored?  Trade.

It wasn't up long.

 

[interloper]

21 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Yes.... last night I think.  Thought maybe I was losing my mind. 

Whose OP was it?

[Going Underground]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Yes.... last night I think.  Thought maybe I was losing my mind. 

The second part is true..I lost mine many years back and it makes life less stressful.

[sportsfan8703]

I heard Kline on 105.7 Tues am and he was talking about how he worked on his spin rate on his FB this offseason. He said his FB started failing too much last year allowing hitters to see it better. He talked about previously that everyone thought tailing was good. 
 

It’s nice to hear that a lot of guys did their HW and really used the analytics this offseason. I think we’ll see some better results. 

[Win Column]

I've always had something of a soft spot for Scott, but if I go with my gut and not my heart...yeah, it just feels like it's just not going to happen at this point.

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

This. Gotta get a few outings under your belt before you start making stock up or down calls unless velocity or stuff is way down. Obviously there have been a couple of bad performances, particularly today, but it's too early to draw any conclusions from what we've seen. 

My rule is to put 0% stock in all spring numbers unless the player is hurt or very clearly, obviously has changed his basic approach from the past. The latter is exceptionally rare.

[foxfield]

It is early.  I do not worry about days like yesterday.  First, it's just good that baseball is back.  Second, our primary goal may well be to secure the #1 pick next year.  Third, while we want to see progress, especially from players we believe will be here as we begin a climb to competition, failures like yesterday reinforce my second point.  If none of that makes sense...read both posts in Drungos box above this...They are spot on.

[bobmc]

2 hours ago, Win Column said:

I've always had something of a soft spot for Scott, but if I go with my gut and not my heart...yeah, it just feels like it's just not going to happen at this point.

Scott or @scOtt?  I mean with the Jeff Bridges avatar, it just could be!  Agreed on the post, however.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

My rule is to put 0% stock in all spring numbers unless the player is hurt or very clearly, obviously has changed his basic approach from the past. The latter is exceptionally rare.

To an extent I agree. However, if you are not an established player and are trying to make the team, performance can matter. Saying that, later performance is much more important then early performance but the only times it really matters is the bubble guys. Elias has said before he doesn't put too much stock in spring stats and really shouldn't because a lot can depend on the talent level they are facing, weather/wind, etc. 

However, if a pitcher can't throw strikes all springs and their stuff is down and they're fighting for a roster spot against another guy who is lights out, that performance can be the reason why one guys makes the team and doesn't.

[HowAboutThat]

15 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

To an extent I agree. However, if you are not an established player and are trying to make the team, performance can matter. Saying that, later performance is much more important then early performance but the only times it really matters is the bubble guys. Elias has said before he doesn't put too much stock in spring stats and really shouldn't because a lot can depend on the talent level they are facing, weather/wind, etc. 

However, if a pitcher can't throw strikes all springs and their stuff is down and they're fighting for a roster spot against another guy who is lights out, that performance can be the reason why one guys makes the team and doesn't.

For me, it’s about performance vs expectations. If a guy does appreciably better or worse than expected, that means something. Scott wasn’t good, and Castro walked a bunch of guys. So what? Did we expect anything else? But Hess had 3 Ks in a scoreless outing. Even though it’s against minor leaguers, that warrants mention. Phillips was bad last season and started out bad again. No surprise, but no progress. Carroll was injured- and bad when he wasn’t injured, but now he’s ok and has done well in two appearances so far. Another “Hmmmm maybe” guy. Lowther got blasted...not sure what we expected, but not that.

Yeah, it’s too early to make definite decisions, but it’s sure not too early to compare with past performances, and in that sense, there’s nothing inaccurate about suggesting that a guy is improving or damaging his chances.

[MurphDogg]

The reason we haven't seen Wells: tired arm, per Roch.

[MurphDogg]

18 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm curious if we will see Givens.

Anyone else see a deleted thread this morning?

Should see Givens soon.