Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

At what point do the changes we make turn baseball into something that is not baseball? For the millionth time, the problem is not the length of game, but that the variables are being removed and it is boring.

The 2014 wildcard game between the A’s and Royals was one of the most exciting games I’ve ever seen. It’s lousy in replay, But live, the suspense was one of the most intense things I’ve ever experienced in sports.

I am an American Leaguer, But I really appreciate National League strategy necessitated by the lack of a DH.

Regardless, striving to shorten the game is tilting at windmills. The game length is not the problem.

Those are just preferences.  And your preferences are just as valid as mine, but I very much think game length is a problem. 

And you can have more strategic decisions with a DH than without.  It's not really strategy when you have a .077 hitter coming up in the 7th, you're down three runs and have two guys on.  You pinch hit.  Any baseball fan knows that.  But if you have a DH and a long bench... you might pinch hit to get the platoon advantage.  Or not.  You might save your guy for the 8th or the 9th.  You pull your pitcher if you want another pitcher, not because he hits like a Little Leaguer.

Baseball is what we decide it to be. 

[weams]

9 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

 

Is there money to be made on both sides?

During Covid? I think not. 

[CarrRun49]

45 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

First of all, I did not endorse changes, I suggested this would be the right time for them to try things if they were thinking of it. Everyone bitches about strike calls..try the electronic now, see if it works or is liked...and other possibilities too. I would never suggest in playoffs that games would not be normal..but maybe during the season extra inning games might be changed. Did the 3 point shot make basketball ruin basketball? Did the 40 second clock in college ball ruin college ball? Did moving goal posts off the goal line ruin football? Did hockey OT game changes ruin hockey? Did lowering the pitching mound ruin baseball? There still would be 3 strikes, 3 outs in an inning, each team gets equal number of at bats, 9 innings. I guess by your wishes games called off after 5 innings would be replayed, despite a team leading at that point.  When is baseball not baseball? Have you watched the O's the last two years. It hasn't resembled MLB in many ways.

I couldn't disagree more.  In none of the scenarios listed above, you have handicapped the opposing team by a rule change.  Adding a runner to second base immediately changes the game. 

Do people immediately lose interest in a baseball game after the ninth inning?  Do people stop watching a college basketball game after the 40th minute if the score is tied?  In my opinion, no.  If anything, the stakes become higher because any play could now make or break the final result.  

[Tx Oriole]

34 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Those are just preferences.  And your preferences are just as valid as mine, but I very much think game length is a problem. 

And you can have more strategic decisions with a DH than without.  It's not really strategy when you have a .077 hitter coming up in the 7th, you're down three runs and have two guys on.  You pinch hit.  Any baseball fan knows that.  But if you have a DH and a long bench... you might pinch hit to get the platoon advantage.  Or not.  You might save your guy for the 8th or the 9th.  You pull your pitcher if you want another pitcher, not because he hits like a Little Leaguer.

Baseball is what we decide it to be. 

I just don’t want the DH put in the NL. I’m old school. Been a fan since the 50’s. 

[jarman86]

28 minutes ago, weams said:

During Covid? I think not. 

Are you being facetious?

[weams]

34 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

Are you being facetious?

No

[Yossarian]

7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

After the 20th inning teams can bring in coaches to pitch.

After 14 innings you hit off a tee.  If still tied after 17 innings, you start adding one more player in the field on defense for each extra inning beyond 17.   A home run over the fence is counted as an out while hitting off the tee.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

After 14 innings you hit off a tee.  If still tied after 17 innings, you start subtracting one player in the field on defense for each extra inning beyond 17.   A home run over the fence is counted as an out while hitting off the tee.

Fixed it.

[jarman86]

7 minutes ago, weams said:

No

Television stations are thirsting for content to play.  Why else is NASCAR, UFC, and boxing starting up?  NBA and NHL still mulling continuing the 2019-20 season?  Live sports are a gold mine for television because people watch it...live and will sit through commercials.  Advertising revenue goes up and television money goes up.  If there was no money to be made on both sides, we wouldn't even have this thread as MLB would have stopped paying their players in March and the season would already be canceled.  

[jarman86]

On the subject of extra innings, KBO plays only 12 innings.  If after 12, it is a tie.  Curious to see what folks think of that?  I'd prefer 12 innings and a tie of real baseball over the man on 2nd rule et alia.

[Philip]

2 hours ago, UpstateNYfan said:

First of all, I did not endorse changes, I suggested this would be the right time for them to try things if they were thinking of it. Everyone bitches about strike calls..try the electronic now, see if it works or is liked...and other possibilities too. I would never suggest in playoffs that games would not be normal..but maybe during the season extra inning games might be changed. Did the 3 point shot make basketball ruin basketball? Did the 40 second clock in college ball ruin college ball? Did moving goal posts off the goal line ruin football? Did hockey OT game changes ruin hockey? Did lowering the pitching mound ruin baseball? There still would be 3 strikes, 3 outs in an inning, each team gets equal number of at bats, 9 innings. I guess by your wishes games called off after 5 innings would be replayed, despite a team leading at that point.  When is baseball not baseball? Have you watched the O's the last two years. It hasn't resembled MLB in many ways.

The changes you made increased the interest in the sport. The shot clock in basketball was not instituted to shorten the game, but to increase the intensity. A pitch clock in baseball is not an analog, because baseball doesn’t have timed quarters. The three point shot is a reward for skill, do you remember the old “three to make two” rule for free throws? That was ridiculous and was dropped. The changes in baseball have decreased interest.

I don’t have a problem with human umpires and mistake calls, one can hope they average out. But I don’t have a problem with an electronic umpire, Although I guarantee you the umpire union does, ha ha.

When discussing changes to the game, we need to discuss changes that will help, and the debate about length of game doesn’t address the problem.

[Philip]

11 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

On the subject of extra innings, KBO plays only 12 innings.  If after 12, it is a tie.  Curious to see what folks think of that?  I'd prefer 12 innings and a tie of real baseball over the man on 2nd rule et alia.

Nope.

play till someone wins.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

2 hours ago, Philip said:

orten the game is tilting at windmills. The game length is not the problem.

Those are just preferences.  And your preferences are just as valid as mine, but I very much think game length is a problem. 

Preferences are preferences, but i shared an examples. The wildcard game I mentioned was one such example. It was very late, and my wife wanted to go to bed, but finally, she gave up and said for me to just watch it until it ended.

And it was a very long game, and very little happened.

But it was amazing.

Remember, sports is as much what is about to happen as what is happening. That’s why there’s very little market for replaying a game. When you see 12 pitches, And you don’t know the result, Each pitch is a second of suspense, a second of holding your breath in anticipation.

The replay’s dumb, because you know that the first 11 pitches are going to consist of nothing.

That’s why baseball is so exciting. Too many people are interested in something happening. And they ignore the suspense. 

I prefer suspense, and if there is suspense, then length means nothing. A suspenseful game of three hours is far superior to a boring game of two hours. I think most people would prefer the former.

[DrungoHazewood]

22 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

On the subject of extra innings, KBO plays only 12 innings.  If after 12, it is a tie.  Curious to see what folks think of that?  I'd prefer 12 innings and a tie of real baseball over the man on 2nd rule et alia.

That's what Japan does, too.  Like I said before, I'm kind of torn.  It's nice to have those ridiculous Chris Davis/Lenn Sakata games.  But ain't no way I'm getting to extras in any weeknight or Sunday night game probably ever again.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

Preferences are preferences, but i shared an examples. The wildcard game I mentioned was one such example. It was very late, and my wife wanted to go to bed, but finally, she gave up and said for me to just watch it until it ended.

And it was a very long game, and very little happened.

But it was amazing.

Remember, sports is as much what is about to happen as what is happening. That’s why there’s very little market for replaying a game. When you see 12 pitches, And you don’t know the result, Each pitch is a second of suspense, a second of holding your breath in anticipation.

The replay’s dumb, because you know that the first 11 pitches are going to consist of nothing.

That’s why baseball is so exciting. Too many people are interested in something happening. And they ignore the suspense. 

I prefer suspense, and if there is suspense, then length means nothing. A suspenseful game of three hours is far superior to a boring game of two hours. I think most people would prefer the former.

Sure.  But how many boring games of three hours do you have a season?  Last year the Yanks played 49 games that were over three hours and were decided by four runs or more.  The Orioles played 41.  Over a quarter of the schedule were games that weren't particularly close and took forever.

What's great is a tense, suspenseful game played in a crisp 2:05.  Baseball used to be played in two hours.  They haven't added an hour more baseball, they've added an hour more standing around and talking and doing nothing.