Update: Orioles sign 17 international players highlighted by Basallo and Hernandez

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So why do the Yankees, Dodgers, etc spend $2 million on one of these guys rather than outbid the Orioles by 250,000 on the 30th or 35th rated guy? I’m just curious and don’t tell me it’s because they have the money to piss away.

That’s already been explained to you. Read what Murphdogg said..that’s the correct answer.

[Just Regular]

The dog ate my homework/my internet crashed, and SG has said it right the last few hours, but dangit I wrote the 5 sentences in the editor.

A basket of players representing perhaps a pinnacle of "false" precision rankings lists give.   I'm sure scouting departments know domestic high school sophomores the same way, but who they are going to be 2, 5 years from now is anyone's guess.

Its important to get the box of unopened 1987 Fleer packs though!

This is the first time its hitting me with the J15 revision if it sticks in 2022 that it could be close to simultaneous if we get a Correa character and a Jasson Dominguez character.  Woot, woot!    #JointPressConferencePlease

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s already been explained to you. Read what Murphdogg said..that’s the correct answer.

So because the Yankees have built a 3-4 year relationship with a player obligates them to pay millions more for that guy than the X team would? I think an argument could be made that the player should sign with them for less since they have massaged him for that period. 

[Redskins Rick]

14 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So why do the Yankees, Dodgers, etc spend $2 million on one of these guys rather than outbid the Orioles by 250,000 on the 30th or 35th rated guy? I’m just curious and don’t tell me it’s because they have the money to piss away.

I thought International money was a separate budget line item for each team, and pretty much even out in the scales, so you really cant out bid others, unless you have some you havent spent.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

 

Its important to get the box of unopened 1987 Fleer packs though!

 

Just bought some '89 unopened Fleer packs.  Looking for that FF Ripken.

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Just bought some '89 unopened Fleer packs.  Looking for that FF Ripken.

Isn’t that where you get Griffey’s rookie card? 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Isn’t that where you get Griffey’s rookie card? 

That, too.

[hoosiers]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

So there are 32 teams and the best talent you can talk into signing or willing to pay enough to sign with you is the 30-35 best available player.

Imagine the MLB draft every year if the Orioles were forced to pick somewhere in the 30-35 range. Would you sign up for that? 

Not sure if you are aware, but the Orioles had a negligible international presence when Mike Elias was hired and had not signed a top 30 international prospect in some time - only two or three guys that we signed in the last 20 years might have made a top 50 list.  Mike Elias had to build out an international scouting network basically from scratch.  Also, most of the top international prospects at the age of 14 reach verbal agreements with clubs to be formally signed at 16.  Mike Elias was hired in Nov 2018.  Koby Perez in Jan 2020.  The fact that these two put together an international scouting network and were able to sign two top 40 prospects in the J2 class that was supposed to be signed last July 2021 is absolutely remarkable - less than 20 months from when Perez was hired.  

Can and should the Os do better than guys in the top 30-35 range going forward?  I hope so.  

Is it appropriate to criticize the current J2 class that was supposed to sign in July 2020?  Only if one is unfamiliar with how the international market operates.

[Sports Guy]

48 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So because the Yankees have built a 3-4 year relationship with a player obligates them to pay millions more for that guy than the X team would? I think an argument could be made that the player should sign with them for less since they have massaged him for that period. 

It doesn’t obligate them..it just means that the player was going to sign with them.

[murph]

50 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Just bought some '89 unopened Fleer packs.  Looking for that FF Ripken.

What about 88 Donruss?   I think that was the year they made like 10 billion cards.  I remember picking up a box or two and being all excited until my collecting buddy told me all of the cards were pretty much worthless!  

[Roll Tide]

10 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

1) Not sure if you are aware, but the Orioles had a negligible international presence when Mike Elias was hired and had not signed a top 30 international prospect in some time - only two or three guys that we signed in the last 20 years might have made a top 50 list.  Mike Elias had to build out an international scouting network basically from scratch.  Also, most of the top international prospects at the age of 14 reach verbal agreements with clubs to be formally signed at 16.  Mike Elias was hired in Nov 2018.  Koby Perez in Jan 2020.  The fact that these two put together an international scouting network and were able to sign two top 40 prospects in the J2 class that was supposed to be signed last July 2021 is absolutely remarkable - less than 20 months from when Perez was hired.  

2) Can and should the Os do better than guys in the top 30-35 range going forward?  I hope so.  

3) Is it appropriate to criticize the current J2 class that was supposed to sign in July 2020?  Only if one is unfamiliar with how the international market operates.

1) I'm completely aware of the situation. Even though there are guys here that think that most of us are just a bunch of idiots and they act like insufferable know it all's. I know weve came along away and progress is certainly a good thing especially when they were so far at the bottom that it wasn't funny.

I refuse to believe that there is no difference between the top 2 or 3 on that list and #25 or #30.

I also refuse to believe that the Dodgers or Yankees with throw and extra 2-3 million at a guy that they believed was no better than or more likely to hit than the 25-30th ranked guy as opposed to signing a dozen of these guys.

So Murph and Rob can say it all that they like .... The Yankees and Dodgers arent stupid organizations that just throw away money.

2) I agree that they should .... Are they doing all that they can now? Is money a factor in why they didn't get a higher ranked guy? Your guess is as good as mine.

3) I don't know the answer to the question and I don't pretend to be the expert that some here convince themselves that they are. I would assume that the additional time gave teams that are behind more time to woo a guy that may have been headed in another direction. For people from the DR ... I am quite certain the an extra $500,000 would sway some in their decision making. In their economy the bonus sets them and their families up for their lives even if they never get a MLB at bat.

Which is very different from Mayo or Baumer leveraging their college scholarship and collecting a bonus that is $1 million over their assigned slot. After taxes here that million is worth 650,000-700,000 in actual cash value. By the time a kid here buys a house and a car he's broke. Not every kid blows through their money ...but you get the point. The player here needs to be moderately successful or needs to find another line of work. That DR kid that collects 2 million dollars never needs to work another day in his life.

[Roll Tide]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It doesn’t obligate them..it just means that the player was going to sign with them.

Your not answering my question....If the Yankees are so dug in on hypothetically the 5th best player. The going rate to sign one of these 50 (again hypothetical) lottery tickets is $1 Million. They have been wooing this kid, have them attend their academy, throwing perks (not sure what is legal before they sign), etc. Under your theory, Why would they need to throw an extra million or 2 at them? You could argue that they should get the player at a discount due to all of the other stuff that you know happens.

 

Here is an example

Quote

The baseball men started coming around when Yewri Guillén was 15. Like thousands of other boys in the Dominican Republic, he had been waiting for them for years, training on the sparse patch of grass and dirt across the road from the small concrete-and-wood house he shared with his mother, father, and two sisters in La Canela, a hamlet 45 minutes southwest of Santo Domingo. By the time the American scouts took notice, he had grown into a 5-foot-10, 165-pound, switch-hitting shortstop with quick hands and a laser arm. In 2009, at the age of 16, he signed for $30,000 with the Washington Nationals. The first thing he’d do with his bonus, he told his parents, was buy them a car and build them a new house.

But soon after Guillén’s signing, Major League Baseball put his plans on hold. The league, having grown more vigilant about identity fraud, suspended him for a year, alleging that he’d lied about his date of birth on paperwork to boost his potential value to scouts. Guillén’s family got a lawyer to fight the suspension, and in the meantime he lived and trained without pay at the Nationals’ academy in Boca Chica, the epicenter of MLB’s training facilities in the country. There, he was notoriously hard on himself. Johnny DiPuglia, the Nationals’ international scouting director, said Guillén would even take himself out of games after making small mistakes like missing a sign from the third-base coach. “He had no education, none at all,” DiPuglia told me. “I didn’t think he had any teeth because he never smiled. And he always had watery eyes—there was always sadness in his eyes.”

DiPuglia made it his mission to cheer up the teenager, “to open up his heart.” He wouldn’t let Guillén pass without giving him a hug and a smile, and little by little, DiPuglia said, Guillén started to loosen up, becoming a better teammate and a happier kid. Later, when other talent brokers approached Guillén claiming that they could get him a better deal with a different team, Guillén turned them away because he felt that he owed it to the Nationals for sticking with him. After MLB finally authorized his contract at the beginning of 2011, the Nationals told him they’d be sending him to play for their rookie league team in Florida. He was to leave in mid-April.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/baseball-dominican-system-yewri-guillen/

[Sports Guy]

If that’s why you are getting from what I said, I don’t know what to tell you.  It just seems that you don’t get the process, which is fine.  I’m not bashing you for it.

End of the day, this isn’t something worth complaining about imo.  It means nothing.  Imagine hiring ten 16 year old kids to work at Walmart and ranking them based on their chances of moving up within the company.  You think that would be easy to do and be done with any real accuracy?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Your not answering my question....If the Yankees are so dug in on hypothetically the 5th best player. The going rate to sign one of these 50 (again hypothetical) lottery tickets is $1 Million. They have been wooing this kid, have them attend their academy, throwing perks (not sure what is legal before they sign), etc. Under your theory, Why would they need to throw an extra million or 2 at them? You could argue that they should get the player at a discount due to all of the other stuff that you know happens.

 

Here is an example

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/baseball-dominican-system-yewri-guillen/

No this is wrong.  
 

The Yankees aren’t the only team courting that player.  But they are the team that is willing to pay them the most and has built that relationship.  The player may have the same relationship with the Tigers but Detroit only views them as a 1.5M investment and NY views them at 2.5M.

[Roll Tide]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No this is wrong.  
 

The Yankees aren’t the only team courting that player.  But they are the team that is willing to pay them the most and has built that relationship.  The player may have the same relationship with the Tigers but Detroit only views them as a 1.5M investment and NY views them at 2.5M.

So the two teams you mention make the offer mention. The Orioles enter the scene and offer said player 3.5 million. So the player says no because he has a relationship with those 2? I highly doubt it.

Also ...as I mentioned if you are right about 30 kids being pretty comparable why overpay 2.5 million if they can get 5 comparable guys for that same money.