Who will be auditioning for the O's closer this spring?

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, LookinUp said:

To the extent the Rays are driving the future of baseball, who ends a game will be as much about data as it is about role. We may have a guy who gets 40-50% of our saves, but not a guy who gets 80-90% of them. 

Last regular season the Rays had 23 saves. Anderson led them with 6.

Furthermore, 12 different Rays compiled the 23 Saves.   Maybe its arb management, maybe its trolling roto players, but I believe there was a little bit of signal to that noise.   If starters can have a 5-man rotation, why not let savers have a X-man rotation (X = 12).   Mindset-wise, I can imagine purpose to this in getting relievers to care about out-getting and not "the Save Rule".  (it might even be what caring about the win rule looks like, Buck).

They still told Nick Anderson they thought he was the best reliever on the team (very amply) in October.   That one could be a rather interesting Arb hearing next offseason.

[HowAboutThat]

12 hours ago, wildcard said:

Last year:

Valdez    3 saves in 3 opportunities

Scott     1 for 2

Lakins 1 for 1

Sulser  5 for 8

I think it would increase Scott's value if he could develop into a closer.

 

 

Who needs a closer? Very idea is kind of stupid. And given that every save increases the arbitration salary, it’s not very financially smart either

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Who needs a closer? Very idea is kind of stupid. And given that every save increases the arbitration salary, it’s not very financially smart either

Oh, so don't even try to develop talent.  Just lose forever.   That would be stupid..

Rutschman will be with the team in 2022 for a full year.  The young starters will be with the team.  The O's should have  a good major league outfield.   All they will need is a better infield.

It will be time next off season to flip the switch.  So if they can develop a closer this season  they should.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

Oh, so don't even try to develop talent.  Just lose forever.   That would be stupid..

Rutschman will be with the team in 2022 for a full year.  The young starters will be with the team.  The O's should have  a good major league outfield.   All they will need is a better infield.

It will be time next off season to flip the switch.  So if they can develop a closer this season  they should.

His point (which I don’t agree with) has nothing to do with “developing talent.”    Of course you do that.   

The issue is whether a team should have a designated closer who always gets the ball when the team has a 1-3 run lead going into the 9th inning, and rarely pitches in any other situation.    I’m fine with doing things some other way, but I disagree with Philip that this approach is “stupid.”    If it were that stupid, you wouldn’t see 90% of teams following that approach.   I think it depends on the talent on your team and how they respond in certain situations.     I don’t think there’s one ideal approach that fits all teams.    
 

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

His point (which I don’t agree with) has nothing to do with “developing talent.”    Of course you do that.   

The issue is whether a team should have a designated closer who always gets the ball when the team has a 1-3 run lead going into the 9th inning, and rarely pitches in any other situation.    I’m fine with doing things some other way, but I disagree with Philip that this approach is “stupid.”    If it were that stupid, you wouldn’t see 90% of teams following that approach.   I think it depends on the talent on your team and how they respond in certain situations.     I don’t think there’s one ideal approach that fits all teams.    
 

And I think if the O's can develop a closer they should.  

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

And I think if the O's can develop a closer they should.  

I think we all can agree that we want the Orioles to try to develop each pitcher in the organization to be as good a pitcher as he can possibly be.

So what do you define as "developing a closer" that goes beyond that statement?

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

I think we all can agree that we want the Orioles to try to develop each pitcher in the organization to be as good a pitcher as he can possibly be.

So what do you define as "developing a closer" that goes beyond that statement?

I don't think it goes beyond that.   But developing a closer means being able to be successful pitching in the 9th inning.   The 9th is different.   Just ask Sulser.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think it goes beyond that.   But developing a closer means being able to be successful pitching in the 9th inning.   The 9th is different.   Just ask Sulser.

The only reason they should consider developing a closer is if they think they can con another team into trading more for him due to his role.  Are any teams that dumb? 

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think it goes beyond that.   But developing a closer means being able to be successful pitching in the 9th inning.   The 9th is different.   Just ask Sulser.

Sulser... 7 majo league innings before the age of 30.  At age 30 he got his first extended time in the big leagues and put up a 5.56 ERA, 1.50 WHIP, and 6.8 walks per 9.

And somehow he is supposed to be an example of "Pitchers who are good in innings 1-8 but can't handle the 9th"?

The only thing he is an example of is "Pitchers who utterly lack major league talent but manage to spend some time on the crappy roster of a rebuilding team that isn't trying to win in a bizarre year where a pandemic leads to expanded rosters".   

 

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The only reason they should consider developing a closer is if they think they can con another team into trading more for him due to his role.  Are any teams that dumb? 

According to Frobby's post above, 90% of the teams are that dumb.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

According to Frobby's post above, 90% of the teams are that dumb.

So 90% of teams are willing to pay a premium price for a "closer" in trades?

Is that what you are telling me?

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Sulser... 7 majo league innings before the age of 30.  At age 30 he got his first extended time in the big leagues and put up a 5.56 ERA, 1.50 WHIP, and 6.8 walks per 9.

And somehow he is supposed to be an example of "Pitchers who are good in innings 1-8 but can't handle the 9th"?

The only thing he is an example of is "Pitchers who utterly lack major league talent but manage to spend some time on the crappy roster of a rebuilding team that isn't trying to win in a bizarre year where a pandemic leads to expanded rosters".   

 

I am not going to argue about Sulser.  But the 9th is harder for a lot of pitchers.   

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I am not going to argue about Sulser.  But the 9th is harder for a lot of pitchers.   

Is a "lot" a majority?

Are you saying a majority of relievers perform worse in the 9th?

Can you provide evidence supporting that claim?

[Can_of_corn]

I think a few pitchers have actual issues and that skews folks perception.  I also think SSS bites some guys in the backside and after a bit of bad luck they are deemed incapable of handling the pressure and moved out of the role.

[SteveA]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think a few pitchers have actual issues and that skews folks perception.  I also think SSS bites some guys in the backside and after a bit of bad luck they are deemed incapable of handling the pressure and moved out of the role.

There are probably also a set of guys who get out lefties or righties significantly better than they get the other side out.

When used in a setup role, they are brought in by their manager in the 7th or 8th inning when there is a preponderance of batters that they can get out coming up.  Then they do well, become a "closer", and have to pitch the 9th where they have to face whoever is due.  And where what little pinch hitting you get in the majors anymore with short benches is most likely to take place.

Tommy Hunter: career OPS .675 vs RHP, .792 vs LHP.   Bring him in in the 7th when 3 of the next 4 guys due bat right-handed and look at how good he is.  Make him your closer and he comes in for the 9th with a 1-run lead and R-L-S-R-L happens to be due and maybe the opposing manager  even pinch hits a lefty for one of the righties.  And he gets hit.

And we conclude he must have done mental flaw that makes him not very good in the 9th inning.